Part 23 - “Baby Listening”, “Checks” and the Patio Doors - Part 2

As you have hopefully seen in part 1 of this section where we looked at the groups first and second statements, there are many discrepancies between their statements regarding the frequency of their checks, if they checked just their own children or checked other couples children, and who out of the group members actually did these checks.

Remember that the group have had a year to discuss their timeline during the week.

We will first look at Jane Tanner’s rogatory interview as she gave this on the 8th April 2008 at 10:00am and was the first member of the group to give their rogatory interview;



Jane Tanner states that they chose Mark Warner for their baby listening service, but found out that this was not offered at the Ocean Club resort in Portugal.

Jane Tanner stated that due to the resort not providing this service they were either going to do their own baby listening service or one couple would stay back each night to care for the children.

Jane Tanner continued her interview;



Jane Tanner stated that Matthew Oldfield was absent from the meal on Sunday night, she struggled to remember the exact night, but from their earlier statements, Matthew Oldfield stayed at the apartments on the Sunday night.

Jane Tanner was then asked if the group decided on the baby listening on the Sunday night which was their first meal at the Tapas restaurants. The interviewer asked this as he was aware that later on in the week, group members had supposedly been cross checking other couples apartments.

Jane Tanner stated that the first night, being Sunday, they all checked their own children.

Jane Tanner also states that the checks she did with her children we now every 30 minutes, whereas in her first and second statements she had said the checks were every 15 minutes.

Jane Tanner stated that there wasn’t a particular point when the group decided to cross check the McCann’s apartment, but it happened to be if people went to check, they would either “pop their head in” or “have a listen”.

Jane Tanner stated that she used Gerry and Kate McCann as a guide for checks as they were very strict at going every half an hour, but even with using them as a guide, they wouldn’t all go at the same time to do their checks.

This is once again different to what Jane Tanner had stated in her earlier statements, as she originally said one person from each couple would go to check their own children every 15 minutes.

Jane Tanner continued her interview and struggled to remember details regarding the Monday and Tuesday night during the meal, until she was asked about Wednesday night, she then remembered something about Russell O’Brien;



Jane Tanner stated that it was either the Tuesday or Wednesday night that Russell O’Brien stayed in his apartment with his sick daughter. Jane Tanner can only remember it was on the main quiz night.

Jane Tanner was then asked more about the Wednesday night at the Tapas;



Jane Tanner stated that it was the Tuesday night Russell O’Brien was away from the table, whereas the Wednesday night it was Rachael Oldfield who was away from the table.

Jane Tanner also states that she did a listening check at Rachael and Matthew Oldfield’s, and that she doesn’t think checks at other couples had happened during the week as she was discussing Wednesday evening.

When Jane Tanner stated the following during her interview when discussing Matthew Oldfield supposed check at 9:30pm, when Russell O’Brien went with him.



Jane Tanner had stated throughout her statement that checks at other couples apartments hadn’t happened by the Wednesday night, whereas she also states that Russell had checked at the McCann’s earlier in the week.

Jane Tanner did not discuss anything else regarding checks.

The next person we will look at is a Matthew Oldfield. He gave his statement on the 9th April 2008 at 10:19am;



Matthew Oldfield has confirmed that he didn’t go to the restaurant on Sunday night.

Matthew Oldfield was then asked about the arrangements the group had regarding the child care at night time during their meals;


Matthew Oldfield stated that he couldn’t see the apartment clearly from the restaurant.

Matthew Oldfield stated that they checked every 10-15 minutes, which was different to what he had originally said as well as less time than what the other group members have said.

Matthew Oldfield also stated that the resort offered a drop off service with baby sitters but he felt this was less safe than leaving the children alone in the apartments, and this is why he decided against using it.

The interview continued;



Matthew Oldfield stated that there was no agreement between the group regarding the checks on the children at night time.

Matthew Oldfield stated that everyone checked their own, and it was only the Thursday night that he offered to check at Gerry and Kate McCann’s.

Matthew Oldfield said he felt comfortable to check at Russell O’Brien’s and Jane Tanners, but he didn’t know the McCann’s children as well.

Matthew Oldfield confirms it was only towards the end of the week.

Matthew Oldfield then stated the length of time his child was left for;



Matthew Oldfield stated that they left their child for approximately an hour and a half to two hours.

Matthew Oldfield did not say that either himself or Rachael went back to the apartments between this two hour time.

Matthew Oldfield was then asked about the Tuesday night;



Matthew Oldfield stated that Rachael Oldfield became ill on the Tuesday night and therefore stayed in the apartment on Wednesday day and night.

The interview then confirmed some details with Matthew Oldfield about what they had discussed;



Matthew Oldfield agreed with the interviewer when he was asked if it was the Tuesday that Rachael had stayed in the apartment.

Matthew Oldfield did not correct the interviewer and say that it was the Wednesday night that Rachael Oldfield stayed in the apartment due to being ill.

Matthew Oldfield then stared the following about Thursday night;



Matthew Oldfield stated that he took it upon himself to listen at the McCann’s on the Thursday night, and he didn’t go in because he believed he may be taking it a bit too far as he didn’t know the McCann’s and well.

Once again, Matthew confirms that it was only the Thursday night that himself and Russell O’Brien offered to check as they felt more comfortable during the week and thought it would be a nice offer.

Remember what Russell O’Brien had said in his second statement. That he had been in the McCann's apart during the week and couldn’t remember if he had been asked or if he had gone off his own accord. From the statements so far, we know that Russell O’Brien didn’t go in to the McCann’s on the Thursday, therefore he had gone in to the apartment during the week when members of the group have said that the only night others checked inside the apartment was the Thursday night.

Matthew Oldfield then stated the following regarding who mainly checked during the meals;



Matthew Oldfield stated that he checked every 30 minutes instead of the 10-15 minutes he had said and the 15-30 minutes he had also said.

Matthew Oldfield stated that he would have done more checks at night time as Rachael Oldfield did more of the daytime checks.

The next person to give their rogatory interview was Rachael Oldfield. She gave hers on the 9th April 2008 at 10:23am.

We will now move on to Rachael Oldfield’s rogatory interview given on the 9th April 2008 at 10:23am. Rachael Oldfield would be giving her statement at the same time as her husband Matthew Oldfield.

Rachael Oldfield discusses the baby listening;



Rachael Oldfield confirmed that the group was aware that there was no baby listening service before going and that they would either have to take the children with them to the meal or do their own baby listening.

Rachael Oldfield stated that this was the reason why David Payne, Russell O’Brien and Matthew Oldfield had emailed the resort, to arrange having the apartments close together.

Rachael Oldfield then discussed Sunday night in her interview.



Rachael Oldfield confirmed that Matthew Oldfield was ill on the Sunday night and stayed in the apartment, therefore she didn’t have to do a check on the Sunday night.

Rachael Oldfield states that Gerry and Kate McCann’s checks were done approximately every 20 minutes, whereas they both said that they did 30 minute checks.

Rachael Oldfield then discussed the service that was offered at the resort;



Rachael Oldfield stated that the reason they chose to do their own listening service is because her child would not sleep if taken to the night time creche.

Rachael Oldfield has just been asked by the interview if there was a rigorous checking procedure in place, which she agreed there was. The interviewer than asked how often these checks took place;




Rachael Oldfield stated that they wore watches, but she was unable to provide a straight answer regarding when the checks to the apartments took place. Rachael Oldfield stated that the checks were every 20 minutes as well as meal based timings.

Rachael Oldfield also stated that she didn’t like doing checks;



Rachael Oldfield stated that due to the darkness and lack of people around, he felt uneasy doing her checks.

Rachael Oldfield then discussed the Wednesday night;



Rachael Oldfield stated that she was ill on the Tuesday night, therefore she did not go to the Tapas meal on the Wednesday night, and instead decided to stay in the apartment.

Rachael Oldfield then discussed how safe she felt leaving the children alone in the apartment;


Rachael Oldfield said that it would not feel right leaving the children alone in the apartments if it was busier, but due to how quiet it was, she felt more comfortable leaving the children alone.

Rachael Oldfield was then asked about Matthew Oldfield’s check at 9:00pm on the Thursday night;



Rachael Oldfield stated that Matthew Oldfield listening at the apartment on the Thursday night was different to previous nights, as not even listening checks were being done at other couples apartments during the week, and this was the first night the group had done this check at another couples, according to herself.

Rachael Oldfield then stated once again, further in her interview;



Rachael Oldfield stated that up until the Thursday, the group only checked their own children.

Rachael Oldfield has now stated that they checked every 20-30 minutes, whereas previously she had said 20 minutes and meal based, whereas her husband, Matthew Oldfield stated that they checked every 10-15 minutes.

Rachael Oldfield stated again towards the end of the extract that Thursday night was the only night someone had checked at the McCann’s apartment.

Rachael Oldfield did not discuss anything else about the baby listening or checks in her interview.

So what we have seen so far is;

The group knew there wasn’t a baby listening service before booking the holiday, and even though some group members were reluctant about this, they still decided to go ahead and book the holiday.

The group said that before booking the holiday, they decided that they would do their own listening service between them.

The group members we have looked at so far cannot agree on the frequency of these checks, and how these checks actually worked, as in which went and when.

When the group are asked to discuss these checks in detail, the majority seem to be struggling to give definite answers to these checks they’re supposedly doing.

The group have all agreed that cross checking wasn’t done until the Thursday night, apart from Russell O’Brien, who, in our last post, said in his second statement, that he had been in the McCann’s apartment during the week, but couldn’t remember if he was asked or if he went in on his own accord.

This is different to what other group members have said, as they have said checks at the McCann’s hadn’t been carried out until the Thursday night.

From our findings so far, in this post and previous posts, the McCann’s supposedly left their patio door open for their friends to be able to check on their children, instead of taking their apartment key and using the front door. Even though every group member apart from the McCann’s would have to walk to the front of the apartments to check their own, the McCann’s supposedly felt it would be safer to leave a patio door unlocked rather than giving their friends the key.

According to the above group members though, apart from a Russell O’Brien, none of their friends checked at the McCann’s during the week, and this only happened on the Thursday night.

Why was the patio door being left open for their friends, if supposedly none of the friends were cross checking at the McCann’s until the Thursday night?

Why has Russell O’Brien stated that he went in to the McCann’s during the week when other members say cross checking wasn’t happening until the Thursday?

We are now going to look at Fiona Payne’s rogatory interview which she gave on the 10th April 2008 at 8:55am.

Fiona Payne stated the following regarding the uneasiness of some group members;



Fiona Payne stated that Kate McCann had an uneasy feeling before going on holiday.

This agrees with what Matthew Oldfield had said previously, that Kate McCann was reluctant to go due to child care arrangements.

Fiona Payne stated that Gerry McCann reassured Kate McCann that everything would be okay.

Fiona Payne then discussed the baby listening service;

Fiona Payne originally went to say that other couples on previous holidays have used the baby sitting service and then changed this to the baby listening service.

Fiona Payne states that she assumed the Ocean Club resort would offer the same facilities as other holiday resorts.

Fiona Payne stated that it was only after booking the holiday did they find out that the baby listening service didn’t operate in this resort, and if she had known this prior to booking, then she probably would not have booked this holiday.

This is different to what the other group members have said, as they have all said that they knew the baby listening service wasn’t available before booking the holiday, and this is why they decided to create their own baby listening service.

So far Fiona Payne hasn’t actually discussed the groups agreement regarding baby listening between them. Instead she discusses what the plan was going to be before they went on holiday regarding childcare;


Fiona Payne stated that David Payne emailed the resort to arrange having the apartments close together as the resort did not provide the baby listening service.

Fiona Payne stated that the plan would be staying on the balcony with the baby monitor and having a drink with each other.

Fiona Payne then discussed the arrangements between the group regarding the baby listening and checking if the children;



Fiona Payne states the same as the other members of the group, that they didn’t formally discuss their own baby listening service.

Fiona Payne stated that checks were being done every 20 minutes.

Fiona Payne stated that she wasn’t aware of cross checking at other couples apartments. She does say she has an idea that people had been checking, just that she was not aware of it.

Fiona Payne also stated that the cross checking on the Thursday night was different to previous nights, as there seemed to be more cross checking then usual, even though it was only Matthew Oldfield who supposedly cross checked the McCann’s apartment twice on the Thursday night.

Fiona Payne was then asked to describe the checks that happened during the meal on the Sunday night;



Fiona Payne stated that originally people were leaving together and it seemed to be every 30 minutes. Whereas the Thursday nights was different, and the reason she believes Thursday was different, was because people arrived at different time.

Fiona Payne continued her interview;



Fiona Payne stated that she remembered that it seemed to be the men who did the checking at the apartments during the meal and it seemed to be Gerry McCann and Russell O’Brien.

Fiona Payne does state that group members were ill, but she cannot remember for definitive who and what day.

Fiona Payne does state that due to sickness, it was usually 8 people at the table, not the entire group.

Fiona Payne then stated who was absent on the Sunday night;


Fiona Payne stated that Matthew Oldfield was absent on the Sunday night, and Rachael Oldfield was either absent in the Tuesday or Wednesday.

As we have seen from previous statements, Russell O’Brien stayed in his apartment on the Tuesday night and Rachael Oldfield supposedly stayed in her apartment on the Wednesday night.

Fiona Payne was then asked about when the men went back to check;



Fiona Payne did not correct the interviewer and say that the women also went back. She continued her interview and agreed that it was the men doing the checking.

Once again, the interviewer states that the men did the checking;



Fiona Payne did not correct the interviewer again, or make any effort to say that women also checked.

Nothing more regarding the baby listening or checks was discussed with Fiona Payne.

The next group member who gave their statement was Russell O’Brien.

Russell O’Brien gave his original rogatory interview on the 8th April 2008, but the equipment failed to record the interview.

Russell O’Brien returned on the 10th April 2008 and gave his interview at 8:59am.

Notes had been taken in his first rogatory and due to the video failing, Russell O’Brien was given the opportunity to read these notes and make any amendments if necessary before signing it to make the document official.

After he did that, he was then asked further questions by the interviewer.

When we look at the interview where Russell O’Brien is making amendments it can get quite confusing, but we will try and explain the best we can.

The first part of Russell O’Brien’s statement we are going to look at isn’t to do with the listening check, but we do believe it crosses over with the listening checks and believe this to be extremely suspicious within the group.


Russell O’Brien stated that Matthew Oldfield was ill on the Sunday night.

Rachael Oldfield had stated that she didn’t have to go back to the apartments on the Sunday night, because a Matthew Oldfield was inside the apartment.

Fiona Payne stated that it was the men that mainly did the checking of their own children.

Russell O’Brien has stated that he went to see Matthew Oldfield on the Sunday night while he was ill.

We will now look at this Sunday night in more detail, as we have come across something interesting and will relate to our future post of the patio doors.

Russell O’Brien had said that he went to see Matthew Oldfield on the Sunday night.

Gerry McCann said the following in his second statement given on the 10th May 2007 at 3:20pm regarding Sunday night;




Gerry McCann has stated that himself and Kate McCann left their apartment through the front door, and that the patio door was closed and locked.

Gerry McCann then continued with;



Gerry McCann stated that only himself and Kate McCann checked their apartment on the Sunday night.

But if we look further on in Russell O’Brien’s rogatory interview, he states the following;


Russell O’Brien has stated that in the Sunday night, he checked at Matthew Oldfield’s apartment using the key, and also checked inside Gerry and Kate McCann’s apartment using the patio door.

Matthew Oldfield was already in his apartment, and Russell O’Brien had said that he went back to see Matthew Oldfield.

Russell O’Brien said he entered the McCann’s through the patio door, whereas Gerry McCann said that no-one other than himself and Kate McCann checked on the Sunday night, and the patio was locked.

Fiona Payne has said that it seemed to be the men who checked, and she remembers Russell O’Brien and Gerry McCann doing the most checks.

Why was Russell O’Brien checking inside the McCann’s apartment when Gerry McCann said no one checked on the Sunday night, and the other members of the group have said that cross checking didn’t happen until the Thursday, but Russell O’Brien was going inside the McCann’s apartment on the first full night.

This already seems suspicious in itself.

But if we look further in to Sunday and what happened at the McCann’s, more suspicions begin to show.

Kate McCann stated in her arguido statement which she gave on the 6th September 2007 at 3:00pm;


Kate McCann has stated that their shutters were broke on the Sunday night and they had them repaired on the Monday.

Kate McCann states that it was Gerry McCann who broke these shutters, which were in Gerry and Kate McCann’s bedroom.

Whereas, Matthew Oldfield discusses broken shutters in his rogatory interview which he gave on the 9th April 2008 at 10:19am;



Matthew Oldfield stated that SOMEBODY, (meaning not himself) had workmen in.

We know Kate McCann has workmen in to fix the broken shutter in her bedroom.

Matthew Oldfield stated “the shutter WE broke” (“we” includes himself and someone else) and that this shutter was the one next to the patio, which was the same window that Kate McCann had said she had repaired due to Gerry McCann breaking it.

This window was on the patio where Matthew Oldfield had said in his second statement given on the 10th May 2007 at 4:00pm, it would be possible for people to enter the apartments undetected;


Russell O’Brien had stated that he went to see Matthew Oldfield on the Sunday night and that he also went inside the McCann’s apartment, even though Gerry McCann said the patio door was locked, and no-one checked other than himself and Kate McCann.

What happened at the McCann’s apartment on the Sunday night?

Why does Matthew Oldfield state “we” broke the shutter?

Why did Russell O’Brien say he went inside the McCann’s on the Sunday night when the McCann’s say that only themselves checked on the Sunday night and the patio door was closed and locked.

We will continue with Russell O’Brien’s statements regarding the listening service and checks.



Russell O’Brien stated that the childcare routine was a collective decision, whereas other group members have said that no discussion took place regarding the childcare routines.

Russell O’Brien stated that each couple did physical checks on their own children, whereas other members of the group say they did listening checks at their apartments.

Russell O’Brien stated that they knew that the baby listening was not offered at the resort before going.

Russel O’Brien said that himself and Jane Tanner did their checks in between the courses, and Gerry and Kate McCann by the clock, whereas the frequency of checks between the group is different to this. Some members said people went together, some say it was every 30 minutes apart from Thursday night were things seemed to be different than other nights, but for no particular reason according to the group.

Russel O’Brien then discussed the night he stayed in the apartment;



Russell O’Brien stated that he stayed in the apartment in the Monday night, whereas other group members said it was the Tuesday night.

Was it possible that Russell O’Brien was away from the table both nights, or was he distancing himself from the Tuesday night. The night Mrs Fenn hears crying from the McCann’s apartment. (We will look at this in a future post)

Russell O’Brien then discussed the checks during the week;



Russell O’Brien stated that on the Wednesday, the checks they did were every 30 minutes.

Russell O’Brien stated that he listened at the McCann’s apartment at 11:00pm in the Wednesday night, even though members of the group have said cross checking didn’t happen before the Thursday night.

Russell O’Brien also stated that during the week he listened on some checks as well as physically checking, even though cross checking hadn’t happened before Thursday night.

Russell O’Brien then stated the following regarding the Thursday night;


Russell O’Brien stated that he didn’t go into the bedroom on the Thursday night, but when he had been in the apartment in previous occasions it had been dark.

Why was Russell O’Brien going in to the McCann’s apartment during the week when cross checking wasn’t done until Thursday?

Why was Russell O’Brien going in numerous times as he states previous OCCASIONS.

Why would the previous occasion’s been dark, as Gerry and Kate McCann said they left a light on for the children’s who’s room was dark, therefore the light would shine through to the bedroom.

The last part that Russell O’Brien discussed from the notes provided regarding the checks;


Russell O’Brien stated that the McCann’s checked by the clock, himself and Jane Tanner checked between courses, and that the did 4-5 checks per evening.

After Russell O’Brien has read the notes from his previous interview, he was allowed to amend any details before signing. Russell O’Brien discussed the baby listening;




Russell O’Brien has stated that the group knew there wasn’t a baby listening service before going, and that they were not led to believe this was offered.

This is different to what Fiona Payne said, as she said she find out once the holiday was booked.

David Payne, Russell O’Brien and Matthew Oldfield dealt with the bookings.

Russell O’Brien then moved on to checks at the McCann’s apartment;



Russell O’Brien has originally stated that initially when they checked their children, they only checked their own, which is what the rest of the group also said. Whereas in his rogatory interview, he is now amending this, as he is now saying that he was checking inside the McCann’s on the Sunday night.



Russell O’Brien stated that from the beginning he was listening at the windows as well as checking inside on SOME OCCASIONS.

Other members of the group had said in their statements that it was only Thursday night the group cross checked, and that the Thursday night was different as they believed cross checking hadn’t been done during the week, whereas Russell O’Brien is now saying that there was numerous occasions he checked inside the McCann’s apartment.



Russell O’Brien stated he took Matthew Oldfield’s key as their door was dead locked, whereas earlier in his statements he said he went to see Matthew Oldfield who was in his apartment on the a Sunday night due to sickness.

And even though Gerry McCann said in his second statement while discussing Sunday he said;



Gerry McCann stated that himself and Kate McCann ALWAYS used the front door when returning, and only himself and Kate McCann has checked on the Sunday.

Russell O’Brien is still saying he entered the McCann’s on the Sunday night.

Why would Gerry McCann feel the need to say he always used the front door when returning at night, if he was leaving the patio open for his friends to enter, so they could check his children, even though group members say that this only happened on the Thursday night?



Russell O’Brien stated that he used the patio door on the Sunday night, as well as Gerry and Kate McCann, but he is not able to confirm that they always used the patio door.

Gerry McCann has stated he always used the front door when returning at night.

Gerry McCann also said in his first statement that himself and Kate McCann entered their apartment on the Thursday night thei U.S. h the front door using their key.

Why would the McCann’s be using their key at the front door if they had supposedly left the patio open for their friends to check all week, but the majority of group members said the cross checking didn’t happen until the Thursday.

In our opinion regarding the patio doors. We believe the patio was being left open unaware to Kate McCann.

Due to this, Gerry McCann had been lying to Kate McCann, and therefore when he gave his first statement, he had to continue this lie to Kate McCann, but tell the truth of how himself and Kate McCann would usually enter the apartment, through the front door, as he stated in his first statement, and they ALWAYS used the front door when returning according to Gerry McCann in his second statement.

After he had done this, he had realised his mistake as it meant he had now said that Kate McCann had walked past the open shutter at 10:00pm, which due to the fact there was no abduction, this shutter wasn’t actually open on Kate McCann’s return.

This is why he corrected himself in his second statement, and said they both used the patio doors.

We do believe Gerry McCann has to lie twice, once to Kate McCann as she was not aware of the patio doors, and twice, due to the fact they had to include the patio doors in to their abduction story, just in case witnesses had seen the men entering during the week, he had to say they used the patio door.

In our opinion, it’s hard enough to cover up one lie, but when you have to tell another lie to cover the original lie, things can get quite confusing.

Gerry McCann was hiding a secret from your wife, but he also need to include the secret about the patio to protect his “friends”.

Russell O’Brien then continued his interview;



Russell O’Brien cannot day whether he stayed at the apartment on the Monday or Tuesday. He believes it was the Monday, whereas his partner Jane Tanner and other members of the group believe it to be Tuesday, the night of the quiz, the same night the instructor said there was an empty place at the table, and this was due to Russell O’Brien.

This is the second time that Russell O’Brien has distanced himself from the Tuesday night, the night Mrs Fenn heard a child crying. (We will look at this in a future post)

Russell O’Brien then confirms that it was the Tuesday night he was missing from the table;



Russell O’Brien stated that he stayed in the flat on Tuesday night and he also stated that Rachael Oldfield stayed in her flat on the Wednesday night as she was ill.

Russell O’Brien then discusses the check he did at the McCann’s on the Wednesday night. This was also a night that Madeleine had cried. (We will explain more about this in a future post).



Russell O’Brien has previously stated that during the week, he listened at other couples apartments as well as going inside on other OCCASIONS (more than one)

Russell O’Brien is now stating that he only went in to the McCann’s in the Sunday night, which was a night that Gerry McCann said only himself and Kate McCann checked, and that the patio door was closed and locked, but this was the night the shutters were broke at the McCann’s apartment which they had repaired the following day.

No other group members, apart from Jane Tanner, Russell O’Brien’s partner, confirm that cross checking was done during the week, the majority all day that it was only the Thursday night cross checking was done. Rachael Oldfield even said that listening checks hadn’t been done during the week to her knowledge, even though Russell O’Brien says he was checking at Rachael Oldfield’s as well.

Russell O’Brien then distanced himself again from being inside the McCann’s apartment;



Russell O’Brien stated that he only listened at the shutters on the Wednesday night, and that they did regular listening checks and less physical checks, whereas earlier on in his statements he had said the physical checks were regular.

Russell O’Brien is then asked about the checks once again;



Russell O’Brien has previously stated that during the week, checks are other couples apartment had been taking place. He had even said that on some occasions he checked inside, whereas now, towards the end of his final interview, Russell O’Brien is saying he only ever went inside the McCann’s apartment once, and listened in the other occasions.

Russell O’Brien has distanced himself away from the Tuesday and Wednesday nights throughout his statements, to a point were he now says he only listened on the Wednesday night.

Russell O’Brien was asked once again about the checks;



Russell O’Brien has stated once again, that there would have been a visit at other couples and regular checks at windows.

We have already shown how the majority of the group say that checks were not done during the between the couples, but Russell O’Brien seems to know that these checks were being done, not just at the windows, but also inside the McCann’s apartment.

Russell O’Brien’s interview continued;



Russell O’Brien stated that it was difficult to actually put times to their checks during the week as they planned theirs around the meal courses.

Russell O’Brien said that during the week, couples would be cross checking while doing their check and reporting back to the other parents, whereas what we have seen in other members statements, this was not true.

Russell O’Brien was then asked how many times he had been in the McCann’s apartment;



Russell O’Brien stated that he had been in the apartment twice. One of the times was the Sunday night.

This has now taken us to the end of Russell O’Brien’s rogatory interview.

Before we continue though, we just want to post part of Russell O’Brien’s previous statement;



Russell O’Brien has previously stated that on PREVIOUS OCCASIONS when he entered the McCann’s apartment it HAD BEEN DARK.

We are now going to look at David Payne’s rogatory interview which he gave on the 11th April 2008 at 10:26am.

David Payne first discuss the booking of the holiday;



David Payne has not yet stated that the reason why he had requested the apartments together was due to the lack of baby listening. He just stated that he had a discussion with Mark Warner regarding having the apartments close together.

David Payne continued;



David Payne stated that reason he had requested the apartments were close together was easier to go next door, and from the children's point of view, the group would be segregated.

David Payne does not state the reason why he had requested the apartments together was because the group had decided to do their own baby listening as it wasn’t provided.

David Payne was then asked why Kate McCann had felt uneasy;



David Payne states that he does not know the reason why Kate McCann felt uneasy, and he has still not mentioned anything about the baby listening service they had all supposedly agreed on before going.

David Payne states that Gerry McCann has reassured Kate McCann and had said “don’t worry you know it’ll be fine and everything” according to David Payne.

Whereas Matthew Oldfield has said in his interview which he gave back in May, that himself and David Payne had discussed the reason why Kate McCann had felt uneasy back in May 2007;



Matthew Oldfield stated that David Payne confided in him that Kate McCann has been reluctant coming in holiday due to the lack of baby sitting services.

David Payne has discussed this with Matthew Oldfield in May 2007, whereas now, in 2008, David Payne is denying any knowledge of knowing the reasons for Kate McCann to be reluctant in going, and he still has not mentioned anything about the group agreeing a baby listening between themselves.

Even when the interview asks David Payne directly about the reason for wanting the apartments close together;




David Payne still does not state that they wanted the apartments together as they were doing their own baby listening between them.

David Payne changes the subject towards the end of his answer and discusses the emails regarding dinner arrangements.

The only time David Payne discusses the baby listening service is when he was asked about it by the interviewer;



David Payne stated that he was aware other Mark Warner holiday’s provided a listening service, but they new that the one in Portugal did not provide this service. Therefore, they decided to do their own listening service.

David Payne stated that they went to Portugal with the idea of baby listening already in place, and that this would mean people wouldn't just listen and the doors, they would also go inside and physically check.

David Payne had plenty of opportunity to discuss the baby listening agreement previously when discussing the reason for having the apartments together and the reason why Kate McCann was reluctant, but it took the interviewer to ask directly before David Payne discusses anything to do with their own baby listening service.

David Payne then explained how the group knew that there was no listening service before going;



David Payne stated that he is sure that most people were aware that the resort didn’t offer the baby listening service before booking.

If this was the case, why did Fiona Payne, David Payne’s wife stated this in her earlier interview;



Fiona Payne stated that it wasn’t until after the holiday was booked did she realise there was no baby listening service and that she wouldn’t have booked it if she had known, whereas David Payne, Russell O’Brien and Matthew Oldfield knew this information prior to booking the holiday as they had emailed the resort before going to request the apartments were close together.

David Payne was then asked when did the group discuss their baby listening arrangements;



David Payne seemed to struggle when giving his answer to this question.

Towards the end, David Payne stayed that the baby listening wasn’t discussed in great lengths, and that it wasn’t possibly discussed at all.

David Payne has previously said he enjoys to arrange holidays and ensures everyone knows what is going on to make sure they all have a good time, but he seems to have very little information about this baby listening service the group had supposedly decided to do themselves before going.

David Payne was then asked if he ate at the Tapas restaurant each night;



David Payne has stated that on most nights an adult would be absent either due to their child being ill or themselves.

David Payne was then asked to describe the checking that the group did on the first night;



David Payne struggled to give a direct answer or even attempt to explain the other couples routines during the meal.

David Payne stated that he knew couples went every 30 minutes, but that was the most information he could remember.

David Payne said he didn’t pay attention to when people checked, but he remembers it was between conversations and they were all strict.

How would he know this if he wasn’t paying attention?

David Payne stated he remembered this from other people’s recollections and not his own.

David Payne then discussed the checks in a bit more detail;



David Payne stated that they all looked after their own children.

David Payne stated that there were some nights someone was missing, and then you’d see someone else leave during the meal.

David Payne stated that it “wasn’t like ah shall we go now, you know now we’ve, nah they’ll be fine”, but in our opinion from what we have shown in our research, we believe this is exactly how it was, and the group were not doing regular checks like they try to make out they were doing.

David Payne was then asked to remember who did checks at the apartments on Monday night;



David Payne stated that Matthew Oldfield has been ill one night.

David Payne stated that some children had also been ill during the meals which meant adults stayed back.

David Payne could not state who left the table and when.

David Payne then discussed Tuesday and Wednesday evening;



David Payne stated that the quiz night was the Tuesday night, which confirms the night Russell O’Brien stayed in the apartment, and the night Mrs Fenn heard a child crying.

David Payne stated that on the Wednesday night, the group stayed out later than usual. This was the night Russell O’Brien has amended in his statement to say he checked at the window and didn’t go in to the apartment, this is also another night that Madeleine had cried and her parents didn’t know.

David Payne was then asked if he offered to check anytime during the holiday;



David Payne stated that he never offered to check.

David Payne then stated that he wouldn’t have felt comfortable checking other people children.

Whereas Gerry McCann said the following in his second statement which he gave on the 10th May 2007;



Gerry McCann stated that he thinks David Payne also went to the McCann’s apartment to ensure the children were well.

The interviewer then asked David Payne if there was anything else he wanted to discuss before stopping the interview for a break;



David Payne stated that apart from the odd illness, there was no unusual behaviour, nothing that would be upsetting the group, and nothing that was untoward about anybody there.

In our opinion, the groups statements have shown the complete opposite to what David Payne said.

David Payne was then asked about the child services the resort offered;



David Payne stated that the resort offered a drop in service, where they could leave their children while they had their meal, and then collect their children afterwards.

David Payne then stated that he did know that the baby listening wasn’t offered at the Portugal resort before booking the holiday.

David Payne that doing their own baby listening was one of the options they could have used depending on where the apartments where situated.

David Payne also said they wanted to make sure the children were sleeping before they went for their meals, and this wouldn’t happen if they left them at the drop in creche.

David Payne then described the baby listening the group did;



David Payne stated that they believe the baby listening service they did between the group, which by his own words, the group hadn’t discussed, was better than the one Mark Warner offered as they were actually going inside the apartments to check the children, not just listening at the doors.

David Payne was then asked about the use of his baby monitor;



David Payne stated that himself and Fiona Payne discusses using a baby monitor before going.

David Payne states that they did not discuss with the group what arrangements for the evening actually were, even though David Payne knew the holiday didn’t offer baby listening, and Fiona Payne only found out when the holiday had already been booked.

David Payne does not say anything else in his statement regarding the baby listening or checks.

The final interview to be given was by Dianne Webster. She provide hers on the 11th April 2008 at 10:26am, the same time as David Payne was giving his.

As we have shown previously, Dianne Webster is not a reliable witness as she has been proven to lie to create false alibis for some group members.

We will still look at her rogatory interview.

Due to the fact Dianne Webster was Fiona Payne’s mother, and didn’t have young children herself, she did not have to do any checking of the apartments, and as the Payne’s had taken their monitor, they wouldn’t have to check unless they heard a noise.

Dianne Webster stated the following about the checks;


Dianne Webster stated that checks were regular as far as she can remember, but she also states that she wasn’t paying attention.

Dianne Webster states that it wasn’t one person going every hour or anything like that.

Dianne Webster was then asked if you could see people doing their checks when they left the restaurant;


Dianne Webster stated that once the person had left the Tapas restaurant to do their check, they couldn’t be seen once exiting.

The last time Dianne Webster discusses the checks in the interview;


Dianne Webster stated that regular checks were being made on the children, but she wasn’t paying attention to this.

Dianne Webster stated that she was unaware of any cross checking.

That has now brought us to end of the groups statements regarding the baby listening they agreed and the checks that took place.

From our findings, we believe that;

There was no baby listening agreement made between the group.

The whole group had not been made aware that baby listening wasn’t available before booking the holiday.

One man from the group stayed back each night with an excuse that either themselves was ill or their child was ill.

The other group members left their children in the apartments, and did not do the regular checks they say they did.

The checks were more likely closer to an hour if not at all.

The majority of the group say they weren’t aware checks were being done, or that they only became aware of these on the Thursday night.

Russell O’Brien had been in the McCann’s apartment during the week when other members of the group said cross checking wasn’t happening before Thursday night.

Russell O’Brien said in the occasions he had been in the McCann’s apartment, it had been dark.

Matthew Oldfield was involved with breaking a shutter at the McCann’s apartment on the Sunday night.

Russell O’Brien said he went back to see Matthew Oldfield on the Sunday night.

Kate McCann said Gerry McCann broke their shutter on Sunday night.

Tuesday night Russell O’Brien was away from the table, which was the same night Mrs Fenn heard a child crying, which stopped after she heard the patio door sliding.

Wednesday night, Russell O’Brien had been at the McCann’s apartment, as well as David Payne, according to Gerry McCann. This was another night that Madeleine cried.

The whole group had said cross checking hadn’t happened all week, Gerry McCann said they always entered through the front door at night, but he also said the patio door was left open for friends to enter, if that was the case, why would he be entering through the front door when returning rather than the patio? Even in his first statement when discussing the Thursday night, he stated that he entered the front door using his key and so did Kate McCann at 10:00pm.

We believe that Kate McCann was reluctant to go due to the fact that she didn’t want to leave the children alone in the apartments, but Gerry McCann convinces her it would be fine.

Fiona Payne took the baby monitor once she learnt that the baby listening service wasn’t offered, as she wasn’t comfortable leaving the children unattended, but David Payne didn’t feel the need to maybe present this idea to the rest of the group.

In our future posts, we will look at the crying incidents on the Tuesday night, heard by Mrs Fenn, as well as the incident on the Wednesday night, when Madeleine McCann said to Kate McCann on the Thursday morning that she had cried the night before.

All we can say for now in regards to Wednesday night, is that David Payne acts very suspicious the following day.

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