We are now going to look at what the group say they did between 7:00-8:30pm to show how even more discrepancies are showing as well as unusual behaviour due to the fact that they had all originally returned their apartments of the usual time of 7:00pm, the majority of the group started to run late.
What happened between 6:30-7:00pm on Thursday the 3rd May 2007, that have caused a group of people to lie about what they did between 7:00-8:30pm?
From our previous post, we have shown how Matthew Oldfield, Russell O’Brien and David Payne have all extended the time they returned from tennis from 7:15pm to 8:00pm.
We will now look at the partners rogatory statements to see the discrepancies to prove these lies.
Matthew Oldfield’s second statement which he gave on the 10th May 2007 at 4:00pm is the first person to discuss returning from tennis;
Matthew Oldfield stated that he stayed in his apartment from 7:00-8:45pm (we believe 7:45pm to be an error as every night they went to the meal at 8:30pm, the only reason Matthew Oldfield may have said this time by mistake is if something relevant happened at this time, but that is just a possibility)
According to Rachael Oldfield’s second statement given on the 11th May 2007 at 11:30am;
Rachael Oldfield stated that she gave her daughter a bath before Matthew Oldfield arrives at 7:15pm. As we have shown from previous posts and statements, the majority of the group returned after 7:00pm.
Rachael Oldfield said that they both got bathed and dresses and went to the Tapas at 8:40pm.
Matthew Oldfield and Rachael Oldfield’s second statements match with each others.
We are now going to look at their rogatory interviews and compare what they have said.
Matthew and Rachael Oldfield gave their rogatory interviews on the 9th April 2008. Matthew Oldfield gave his at 10:19am, whereas Rachael Oldfield gave hers at 10:23am. Therefore they would both be interviewed at the same time and cannot discuss anything until after their interviews have finished.
If they are being truthful, their recollections should match, if the group are lying, and they have discussed this timeline, then there is also a possibility they will match, but if there are too many discrepancies, the chances are, they are both lying.
Matthew Oldfield in his rogatory states the following;
Matthew Oldfield has stated in a previous post that he returned closed to 8:00pm rather than the original 7:15pm everyone had said in the earlier statements.
Matthew Oldfield stated that his daughter had been bathed when he returned whereas Rachael Oldfield stated that Matthew Oldfield returned while she was bathing her daughter.
Matthew Oldfield said he is “pretty certain” his daughter was awake when he returned.
Matthew Oldfield said that they put their daughter to bed and read her stories.
Matthew Oldfield said that they would normally bathe their daughter and put her to bed at 7:30pm, which was still possible this night as the women had supposedly took the children back at 7:00pm to be bathed, whereas now he is saying because they were running late, they didn’t manage to get their daughter down until closer to 8:00pm.
Matthew Oldfield stated that once they saw Gerry McCann and Kate McCann at the table in the Tapas bar they decided to leave their apartment.
We will now compare Matthew Oldfield’s rogatory interview with Rachael Oldfield’s rogatory interview, and remember, they gave their interviews at the same time.
Rachael Oldfield stated the following;
Rachael Oldfield stated that she didn’t arrive to the tennis courts until 7:00-7:10pm, this is much later than she had originally said, it has also gone past the time that she had originally said that they had left tennis.
Rachael Oldfield has also extended the time Gerry McCann left the tennis to 7:20pm, whereas we have confirmation from other members that he left at 7:00pm when David Payne returned from the McCann’s apartment.
Rachael Oldfield continued her interview;
Rachael Oldfield stated that they all left at the same time between 7:30-7:40pm (extended time).
Rachael Oldfield states that Jane Tanner’s and Russell O’Brien’s daughter may if had a bath in their apartment on the Thursday night, but is unsure as this may have been another night.
Rachael Oldfield has now stated that between 7:30-7:40pm all the women took the children back to their apartments, leaving the men to play tennis. (She has now extended the entire time for the group)
Rachael Oldfield states once again that Jane Tanner’s and Russell O’Briens daughter had a bath in their apartment, whereas Matthew Oldfield had stated that he returned to Rachael Oldfield and her daughter who they read a book to and put to bed. Matthew Oldfield did not say that his daughter was having a bath with anyone else’s child.
Rachael Oldfield stated that children being bathed between the apartments happened often.
Rachael Oldfield stated that she was reading books when Matthew Oldfield arrived.
Rachael Oldfield continued;
Rachael Oldfield stated that she believes she was reading books with her daughter and Jane Tanner’s daughter on the Thursday night.
Rachael Oldfield has now stated that her daughter was put to bed at 8:00pm, even though they have got back from the tennis later, she has still managed to give possibly two children a bath, got them dries and dressed and had time to read stories to them, but still they were running late.
Rachael Oldfield said the reason why there were running late was “because, you know, everything was happening, it happened a bit later that evening.”
WHAT WAS HAPPENING THAT CAUSED THEM TO BE LATER THAN USUAL?
Tennis had been moved forward as it was most nights.
The men and women were all back at the apartments by 7:15pm in their original statements, which was no different to any other night.
They still managed to bathe their children when they returned.
BUT SOMETHING WAS HAPPING WHICH CAUSES THEM TO BE LATE.
The last part Rachael Oldfield discussed in her interview was when they left to go the Tapas;
Rachael Oldfield stated the same as Matthew Oldfield, that when they saw Gerry McCann and Kate McCann arriving at the restaurant, they knew they better get going.
From comparing Matthew and Rachael Oldfield’s statements, which as partners you would be believe would be similar, especially regarding parts when they’re together (time they left the apartment) we have shown that there are too many discrepancies for them to be true.
In our opinion, both of them are lying to cover their true actions during this time.
We will now look at Jane Tanner and Russell O’Brien’s statements to see what discrepancies show between each of theirs, and others regarding the time 7:00-8:30pm.
Jane Tanner stated the following in her 2nd statement given on the 10th May 2007 at 4:35pm;
Jane Tanner originally stated that she returned to her apartment at 7:00pm and bathed her daughters and read them a story.
Jane Tanner has not mentioned her daughter bathing with Rachael Oldfield’s daughter.
Jane Tanner stated that her daughter wasn’t feeling well.
Jane Tanner states that Russell O’Brien arrived in the meantime and it was his turn to stay with their daughter because she was struggling to sleep.
Jane Tanner left for the Tapas at 8:30pm.
We will compare her second statement with Russell O’Brien’s second statement which he gave on the 11th May 2007 at 11:20am;
Russell O’Brien stated that he returned at 7:15-7:30pm.
Russell O’Brien stated that he read his daughters some stories.
Russell O’Brien’s states that his daughter was a little better butbhad trouble sleeping which agreed with Jane Tanner’s.
Russell O’Brien stated that Jane Tanner left the apartment at 20:35-20:40pm.
As we have shown in previous posts, Jane Tanner and Russell O’Brien tend to lie and create alibi’s a lot more than other members of the group.
We will now compare their rogatory interviews with each other, as well as against their earlier statements, and other group members statements.
Jane Tanner was the first one out of the two to give her rogatory interview, she gave hers on the 8th April 2008 at 10:00am.
Jane Tanner stated;
Jane Tanner has now stated that it was about 7:30pm that they returned to their apartment, whereas in her earlier statement she had stated that they returned at 7:00pm. (Extended time)
Jane Tanner stated “no, no, no, just, erm, yeah, it was the same, we’d done that almost every night” when asked the direct question of “Nothing different to the rest of the holiday really?”
What made her change her answer from no to yes?
What was different this night to other nights which is causing the whole group to extend the time tennis ended?
Jane Tanner then stated that her daughter’s had had a “screaming fit” on the Thursday night. Whereas, in previous statements, both herself and Russell O’Brien both said that their daughter’s were bathed and had stories read to them, and Rachael Oldfield had said that Jane Tanner’s daughter had been bathed in her apartment with her own daughter, but this has not been stated by either Jane Tanner or Russell O’Brien.
Jane Tanner stated that her children were being bad that night and they “had just lost it”. Which once again, is different to how she described this night in her precious statements.
Jane Tanner stated that her daughter was asking where Russell O’Brien was when she was being put to bed, whereas Russell O’Brien had said that he had read his daughter some stories.
Jane Tanner then stated that Russell O’Brien returned at 7:45pm and they put their daughters to bed, whereas in the sentence before, she had said he daughter was asking where her dad was when Jane Tanner was putting them to bed.
Jane Tanner has contradicted herself regarding when her children where put to bed and when Russell O’Brien returned to the apartment.
As you can see, there are so many discrepancies between all the statements so far.
We are now going to look at Russell O’Brien’s rogatory interview which he gave on the 10th April 2007 at 8:55am;
Russell O’Brien stated that he returned to the apartment at 8:00pm, Jane Tanner had said 7:45pm. (Both extended time)
Russell O’Brien stated that the children were in bed.
Russell O’Brien states that Jane Tanner went to the Tapas at 20:30-20:40pm and he stayed in the flat to settle down his daughter.
Due to Russell O’Brien taking a written rogatory statement with him, this meant the interviewer had to go through the statement he had typed out instead of interviewing.
This allowed Russell O’Brien to amend any details he wanted to before he signed it as his statement.
Once he had done this, the interviewer would then ask him more questions but in further detail.
The next part of his statement we will look at, is the part where he is allowed to amend;
Russell O’Brien stated that he wanted to change where he had wrote “the children were awake” to “the children were only just in bed”.
Russell O’Brien has decided to amend extremely minor details which would be no use in helping find Madeleine McCann or even help the investigation. It is only helping him to ensure he has gotten his story straight.
Russell O’Brien also requested to change the time change went to the restaurant from 8:30-8:40pm to exactly 8:40pm.
Russell O’Brien was being extremely picky during this interview in the amendments he wanted to make.
We are now going to look at Russell O’Brien’s interview where he was asked direct questions;
Russell O’Brien states that Gerry McCann left a little earlier than the rest if the men, and they followed not long after. As we have shown, Gerry McCann finished tennis at 7:00pm, therefore for the men to leave not longer after Gerry McCann, it would have been closer to 7:00pm ad they had originally said, whereas Russell O’Brien states he got back close to 8:00pm.
Russell O’Brien has contradicted himself.
Russel O’Brien states once again that rackets had to be taken back with them.
As we know from previous statements, the group left when David Payne arrived, which should have give them plenty of time to take their rackets back, but for some reason they had to leave the tennis courts with their rackets at 7:00pm and go back to the apartments without stopping to drop them off.
What would cause them to have to rush off at 7:00pm to cause them to take the resorts equipment with them which should have been returned that night.
Russell O’Brien stated that Jane Tanner had been in the apartment with the children for a while before he returned after tennis, but even still, Jane Tanner had not managed to get the children to bed, whereas in their earlier statements, both had said they returned, bathed the children, read them stories and put them to bed.
All the members of the group extend the time the finished tennis in their rogatory statements so far.
We will not look at Fiona Payne’s, Dianne Webster’s and David Payne’s.
Before we do, remember that Fiona Payne said she was with Kate McCann at 7:00pm.
In our opinion neither Fiona Payne or Kate McCann stayed at the tennis courts, and you will see this when Fiona Payne talks about the men’s social tennis.
Dianne Webster has also lied regarding remembering Matthew Oldfield walking past them at 9:00pm on the Thursday night, she’s lied about remembering Russell O’Brien leaving the table at 9:40pm, and she lied about the men playing tennis most afternoons. Therefore her statements are very untrustworthy.
David Payne has lied regarding being with Kate McCann in the apartment, and we will see further lies as we continue through their statements.
Fiona Payne was the first person to discuss the time after tennis in her first statement given on the 4th May 2007 at 7:20pm;
Fiona Payne stated that she left with Dianne Webster at 7:00pm, which we have shown is most likely untrue.
Fiona Payne states that her husband arrived ten minutes later.
Fiona Payne stated that David Payne bathed their children with Dianne Webster.
Fiona Payne stated she went jogging from 7:15-8:00pm.
Dianne Webster was the next group member who gave her first statement on the 4th May 2007 at 8:45pm;
Dianne Webster stated that she returned to the apartment with the children and ten minutes later David Payne joined her and the children, and together, they bathed the children.
Dianne Webster does not state where Fiona Payne is at this time.
Due to the fact that their are no second statements in the PJfiles from David and Fiona Payne, we’ve only got Dianne Websters to look through, as well as the extract contained in the Gasper statement where Fiona Payne stated she was with Kate McCann at 7:00pm.
Dianne Webster said in her second statement given on the 11th May 2007 at 11:30am;
Dianne Webster has now stated that Fiona Payne was with her and David Payne at 7:00pm and they all left together to go to apartments after tennis with their children.
As we have shown in previous posts, Fiona Payne was most likely with Kate McCann at 7:00pm.
We will now move on to the rogatory’s which previous group members have all extended their time after tennis.
To confirm our belief why Fiona Payne was not at the tennis courts and more likely in her apartment with Kate McCann, is due to what she has states in her rogatory statement on the 10th April 2008 at 8:55am;
Fiona Payne struggled to say who was playing tennis. Firstly, in our opinion, is because she knows the men didn’t play tennis on the Thursday night, and secondly, she does not mention any other holiday guests at the tennis court, playing in social tennis, even thought there was three other people playing from outside of the group.
There is also another part in Fiona Payne’s rogatory interview which we believe confirms that she was not at men’s social tennis on the Thursday night;
Fiona Payne now struggles to remember the names of the men of the group when she is trying to explain to the interviewer who was playing men’s social tennis that night.
Fiona Payne also cannot state anything about the time the other women left that night, and then includes, “what tike they left to sort the kids out”.
Fiona Payne stated that they did not leave all together, whereas in other members statements they say they all left at 7:00pm.
This confirms our conclusion that Fiona Payne was not at the tennis courts on the Thursday night.
We will continue looking at Fiona Payne’s statement;
Fiona Payne stated that the next time she saw David Payne after he had left for tennis, was when she arrived at the tennis courts and watched him play for the whole half an hour that she supposedly was there for.
In our opinion, Fiona Payne has tried to create an alibi for David Payne, by saying that he played for the whole half hour.
Fiona Payne also stated that David Payne did tell her about his visit to the McCann’s apartment and that he saw Kate McCann and the children, but she said that was between 6:00-6:30pm, once again, creating his alibi.
Fiona Payne struggled when she was asked direct question about David Payne playing tennis, and confirmed once again, that she was not at the tennis court on the Thursday night.
Fiona Payne has confirmed that she cannot say for certain that David Payne did what he said he did between 6:00-7:00pm and cannot confirm that he played tennis at all.
Fiona Payne then continued to discuss after 7:00pm on the Thursday night;
Fiona Payne stated that David Payne returned between 7:00:7:10pm.
Fiona Payne then went for a jog between 7:15-8:00pm, this was at the same time as Dianne Webster and David Payne supposedly bathed the children.
As we said at the beginning, you need to forget the timeline they are telling you as they are covering the truth with a lot of tiny lies.
In our opinion from our findings, the McCann’s moved their bath time to 6:00pm on the Thursday night, so it was away from their usual 6:30pm (the time something happened to Madeleine McCann)
The other group members all moved their bath time to after 7:00pm, to distance it once again from 6:30pm.
They also used the men’s social tennis as a cover up for what the men were doing between 6:30-8:00pm.
Dianne Webster has been used throughout her statements to create alibi’s for the group.
Dianne Webster helped David Payne with his, by saying he returned at 7:10pm and bathed the children with her.
Whereas Fiona Payne lied about jogging from 7:15-8:00pm, as this was the time she was in the McCann’s apartment after what ever happened to Madeleine McCann. (Extended time)
All this relates back to when Matthew Oldfield states that when he arrived at the apartments at 7:15pm after tennis, he found other members of the group in the apartments.
This would be the time the majority of the group would become aware something happened to Madeleine McCann, and we know something happened to her at this time due to the amount of lies and discrepancies during this time.
We also know something happened to Madeleine McCann at this time, as Rachael Oldfield said they were late to dinner due to everything happening on the Thursday night.
We will now look at David Payne’s rogatory interview to see if he confirms the same as Fiona Payne, or does he extend the time as everyone else has.
David Payne gave his rogatory interview on the 11th April 2008 at 10:26am;
David Payne stated that he didn’t go back to the apartment until after 7:30pm (extended time)
This now confirms that Dianne Webster and Fiona Payne created a false alibi for David Payne in regards to him returning to the apartment.
Fiona Payne could not confirm what David Payne did during men’s social tennis.
David Payne stated that Fiona Payne went for her run when he had gotten back after 7:30pm, and then he bathed the children.
Once again, another member of the group who have extended the time tennis ended, and now said that they were running later than usual, whereas in their first statements, everything was supposedly running on time.
David Payne was also asked a direct question by the interviewer;
David Payne stated that they got the prams and children and head back towards the tennis courts.
David Payne stated that the tennis started at 6:30pm whereas the rest of the group have confirmed that it was moved earlier to 6:00pm as requested by group members.
David Payne then said it was 6:45pm when he played tennis.
Now, in our opinion, David Payne blatantly lies regarding playing tennis;
David Payne states that he himself, Gerry McCann, Russell O’Brien and Matthew Oldfield were going to make up the four players.
David Payne does not state that any other holiday makers were playing tennis at the same time.
David Payne then stated that Dan Stuk, the instructor made up the four, but as we know, the other men of the group didn’t play tennis.
David Payne could not explain how or when the player change took place in the tennis game.
David Payne stated that Gerry McCann had asked him to “pop in” to see Kate McCann, who we have shown was most likely not in her apartment at the same time as David Payne, and Gerry McCann had said that David Payne had offered to go to the McCann’s apartment.
Gerry McCann also David Payne was away from the tennis courts from 6:30-7:00pm. Therefore, David Payne was not playing tennis with him or anyone else at this time.
David Payne also confirms the logic of his lie by explaining what he WOULD have done;
David Payne stated that logically he should have gone to his apartment first and then to the McCann’s through their front door, but instead he went to the McCann’s at 6:30pm, and no-one can confirm what happened between this time while David Payne was in the McCann’s apartment, not even Kate McCann, as it has been proven that she most likely wasn’t in the apartment at this time.
When David Payne was asked a direct question about how long he had spent inside the McCann’s apartment, he failed to give a direct answer;
Rather than David Payne just telling the interviewer how long he spent inside the apartment, he decided to explain his movements from the tennis courts to his apartment and to the McCann’s and each one took about 5-10 minutes.
The tennis courts were right next door to the Tapas bar, and the group would walk the same route from the tennis courts as they would do from the Tapas bar.
At night, the group said that it would only take a minute to get to the apartments and another minute to get back, whereas now David Payne is saying the same walk is taking him 5-10 minutes.
Once again, David Payne is extending his time to cover the truth.
David Payne knows that it shouldn’t have taken him so long to do what he supposedly did, and therefore struggles to explain this when asked to go in to more detail.
David Payne then continues his interview and once again, extends the time that the men finish playing tennis (which we have shown that they didn’t play);
David Payne has now stated that he returned to the apartment closer to 8:00pm.
Therefore, this now proves that Fiona Payne and Dianne Webster have both lied to provide David Payne with a false alibi of being in his apartment at 7:15pm.
David Payne even stated that Fiona Payne still wanted to go for a run that evening, even though he has got back closer to 8:00pm, and Fiona Payne had stated that she had gone for a jog between 7:15-8:00pm.
David Payne did not state anything else in his statement regarding this time, as once the group say they returned to the apartments, they all state that they got ready for the meal, whereas in our opinion, they spent this time between 7:00-8:30pm creating a plan for the evening.
We do not believe the timeline was pre-planned for the night, the timeline’s had to be written quickly, because something in their plan went wrong. This would relate back to Jane Tanners lie, and Tannerman.
The last person to give their rogatory interview was Dianne Webster.
Dianne Webster gave her interview on the 11th April 2008 at 10:26am, which was the exact time David Payne was giving his.
Dianne Webster stated the following regarding the men’s social tennis;
Dianne Webster confirms that the men left the beach for men’s social tennis at 6:20pm, but later on she struggles to remember anything during the time of men’s social tennis between 6:30-7:00pm.
Due to Dianne Webster struggling to remember the details, the interviewer offered to read her, her second statement to refresh her memory;
In our opinion, this is when Dianne Webster realises she should have included David Payne’s alibi, and without the interviewer reminding her, she would not have remembered this at all, as immediately after this interview, she discusses the beginning of the meal times.
Therefore, our opinion in regards to our findings, is that after 7:00pm the group have found out what has happened to Madeleine McCann.
We do not believe that all the group new at the same time that night, but eventually the whole group had to know to be able to provide alibi’s for each other.
We understand that so far we have only explained the groups alibi during the meal, and the routine during the week leading up to Thursday 3rd May 2007 at 6:30pm, and that something happened to Madeleine between 6:30-7:00pm.
Also that the group have covered up the truth by extending the times that the men finished playing social tennis, which they did not play, and the possibility that this holiday was planned the same way as the holiday to Majorca in 2005, with the same reasons as Katherina Gasper had stated.
That the men bathed the children during that holiday.
In our future posts, we will explain the possible reason for the cover up, as we don’t believe that it just involved what ever happened at 6:30pm, we will also do future posts on other topics, for example, the baby listening agreement, the crying incidents etc.
Please make sure you are following us on twitter and our blog for regular updates.
Please click the link below to go to Part 22 - “Baby Listening”, “Checks” and the Patio Doors.
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We have already looked at the groups first and second statements regarding the men playing tennis and from our findings, we can confirm the following.
The women of the group returned to the apartments at 7:00pm.
Fiona Payne and Kate McCann returned to the McCann’s apartment at 7:00pm
David Payne went to the tennis courts at 7:00pm.
Gerry McCann returned to the apartments at 7:00pm.
David Payne returned to the apartments at 7:10pm.
Matthew Oldfield returned to the apartments at 7:15pm. (Where he found other members of the group, see part 1)
Russell O’Brien returned to the apartments at 7:15-7:30pm.
We have also looked at David Payne’s visit to the McCann’s apartment at 6:30pm, and how he didn’t start to play tennis until 7:00pm.
We will now show you how all the members have extended the time tennis ended in their rogatory statements.
The majority of the group originally said that everyone was back at the apartments between 7:00-7:15pm on Thursday 3rd May 2007.
Whereas in their rogatory statements when they have to describe this time in more detail, discrepancies are shown.
In our opinion, this shows that something happened to Madeleine McCann between 6:30-7:00pm on the 3rd May 2007, while David Payne was in the apartment.
We are not saying David Payne was alone with the children in the apartment as we still have to explain where other members of the group are, at the time David Payne was in the apartment.
In our previous tennis post, we shown the statements of the group which said the men head to the tennis courts at 6:20pm to play men’s social tennis, and we are aware that Gerry McCann was already playing with Dan Stuk, Julian Totman and Brian Curtis.
We are now going to look at where the men went to when they got to the tennis courts/apartments and then look at what time they started to play tennis.
Gerry McCann and David Payne both stated, in previous statements we have shown, that David Payne went to the tennis courts when he returned from the beach at 6:30pm.
David Payne also stated, in a previous statement we have shown, that he did not know where Russell O’Brien or Matthew Oldfield went when he went to the tennis courts at 6:30pm.
Therefore, we will now look at Matthew Oldfield’s rogatory statement to see where he says he goes at 6:30pm when they arrive near the tennis courts/apartments.
In Matthew Oldfield’s rogatory interview given on the 9th April 2008 at 10:19pm he stated the following;
Matthew Oldfield stated that he went back to the apartment to get the tennis gear and then went to the courts.
Matthew Oldfield stated that the other men went and got their stuff.
Matthew Oldfield stated that David Payne had said he had been in the apartment (does not state what apartment) and that he didn’t know anything about that. Even though according to Gerry McCann, David Payne was away from the tennis courts drom 6:30-7:00pm.
Matthew Oldfield stated that when he returned to the tennis courts, social tennis was already in play as it had already started.
Matthew Oldfield then continued his interview;
Matthew Oldfield confirmed what Gerry McCann had said regarding social tennis. Gerry McCann was playing with 3 other players. Dan Stuk the tennis coach, Julian Totman and Brian Curtis.
Matthew Oldfield continued;
Matthew Oldfield stated that due to the men already playing tennis, they didn’t manage to get on to the courts until closer to 7:00pm.
Dan Stuk confirmed in his statement that men’s social tennis was from 6:00-7:00pm.
The women of the group said that they left at the end of tennis at 7:00pm and the men arrived between 7:00-7:15pm.
This is now where the discrepancies start showing for the time tennis ended.
Originally, all the group members had returned to their apartments by 7:15pm.
Matthew Oldfield continued his statement;
Matthew Oldfield has now stated that the tennis coach stayed to play and make up the numbers after 7:00pm.
This is different to what the women said when they had returned at the beach at 6:30-6:40pm. They had said that the men were already playing and that they all left at 7:00pm, whereas now, Matthew Oldfield is saying that they started playing at 7:00pm and played for “the best part of an hour” therefore this would mean he arrived at the apartments (where he found other group members) closer to 8:00pm than the original 7:00pm they had all preciously said.
Matthew Oldfield has decided to extend the time tennis ended, instead of explaining in detail what happened between 7:00-8:00pm.
In our opinion, these findings now confirm that Matthew Oldfield did not play in the men’s social tennis on the Thursday night.
We can also confirm that David Payne did not play in the men’s social tennis on the Thursday night.
We will now look at Russell O’Brien’s statement regarding the time he arrived at the apartments/tennis court;
Russell O’Brien stated that they went to tennis around 6:00pm. We know this is false as the cctv footage from the beach shows the men leaving at 6:20pm.
Russell O’Brien said he went to tennis with Matthew Oldfield and David Payne went to his apartment and then Gerry McCann’s. This is different to what Matthew Oldfield stated, as he said that he went the apartment first before going to the tennis courts. David Payne had stated that he went the tennis courts first and then to the apartment.
Russell O’Brien stated that he played tennis for an hour to an hour and a half which would take the tike he finished to 7:00-7:30pm, whereas from the other group members statements, the other men in the group didn’t play tennis.
Russell O’Brien stated that Dan Stuk was there as well as other players and Gerry McCann, which was true.
Russell O’Brien states that he assumed the McCann’s children were in their apartment.
Russell O’Brien said that he returned to his apartment at 8:00pm, and because they were running late, they had to take the tennis rackets back to the apartments. Whereas in his previous statements Russell O’Brien said he had returned to the apartment between 7:15-7:30pm.
So far we have shown the discrepancies between two members of the groups statements.
Both of these group members have now extended the time that they returned from tennis to what they had originally stated in their first and second statement which was 7:15pm.
Russell O’Brien provided a written statement in his rogatory interview. The interviewer allowed Russell O’Brien to read through his statement and he was allowed to make amendments to it if he felt in necessary.
This is what Russell O’Brien had to say when he reached the part of tennis in his statement;
Russell O’Brien stated that he wanted to add in to his statement that Gerry McCann was playing tennis. He also says that David Payne and Matthew Oldfield were at the tennis, which have we have shown from their statements, its highly likely they had not played tennis that night.
After Russell O’Brien had had his opportunity to amend his statement, the interviewer asked him direct questions regarding different events. One of these was the men’s social tennis;
Russell O’Brien stated that himself and Matthew Oldfield went straight to the courts and David Payne went to his apartment and to Gerry and Kate McCann’s apartment. Whereas in their previous statements, Matthew Oldfield had said he went to his apartment first, and David Payne had said he had been to the tennis courts first. Therefore, we believe that Russell O’Brien is now creating another alibi for himself, to ensure people believe he was at tennis and not at the apartments.
Russell O’Brien stated that he CERTAINLY DIDN’T KNOW THEM TERRIBLY WELL when talking about Julian Totman and Brian Curtis, who were playing tennis with Gerry McCann and Dan Stuk.
Russell O’Brien stated that they started playing doubles and then changing between players.
Whereas Matthew Oldfield said that they didn’t get on the court until the other players had finished at 7:00pm, and that everyone returned to their apartments just after 7:00pm, and that David Payne didn’t play tennis between 6:30-7:00pm.
Therefore, from the above and previous findings we believe that the men playing tennis was a lie to cover up their usual routine of bath time at 6:30pm.
Russell O’Brien continued his interview;
Russell O’Brien stated that David Payne was only a few minutes at the apartments whereas in previous statements we have shown that David Payne returned to the tennis courts at 7:00pm.
Russell O’Brien is now extending the time he spent at tennis. He states that he played for nearly an hour and a half. The longest time any of them have said for playing tennis.
Russell O’Brien stated that they “weren’t playing anything like competitive tennis”, but they were supposedly meant to be playing in the men’s social tennis were he said he played doubles and changed players, therefore we doubt the children came on to the courts while the games were in play, especially with an instructor on the court who knows about child safety during an adult tennis game.
Russell O’Brien then stated who took the children back to the apartments;
Russell O’Brien stated that Jane Tanner took their children back, but when he had to state who took Grace back, he firstly said Matthew Oldfield took Grace back, then Grace took, and then Rachael Oldfield took Grace.
We believe the reason for this slip in the tongue was the fact that Matthew Oldfield usually did bath time, and the Thursday night, from what we have shown, should have been no different to any other night so far.
Russell O’Brien confirms that Gerry McCann left the tennis courts as well as Dan Stuk the tennis coach earlier then themselves, Matthew Oldfield, who we have shown most likely did not play tennis that night, David Payne who most likely did not play tennis that night, and Russell O’Brien who seems to be creating another alibi.
Russell O’Brien then stated about the time he returned from tennis;
Russell O’Brien stated that they returned to the apartment close to 8:00pm, and that they had to take the tennis rackets back to the apartments due to the pavilion being closed.
Russell O’Brien is now stating that the Thursday night that all the men got back later than previous nights.
Russell O’Brien has now extended the time tennis finished to closer to 8:00pm for himself, Matthew Oldfield and David Payne.
What caused the men to take the rackets back with them to the apartments at the original time from their first and second statements of 7:00pm at the time David Payne had returned from possibly being alone with the children in the McCann’s apartment.
There is now every possibility that Russell O’Brien or Matthew Oldfield is with David Payne, or both.
The main point we are trying to make is, Russell O’Brien, Matthew Oldfield and David Payne have all used tennis as their alibi.
Therefore, what were the men doing between 6:30-7:00pm while they weren’t playing tennis?
What caused the group to now extend the time tennis finished to 8:00pm instead of the original 7:00pm finishing time?
What happened in the McCann’s apartment between 6:30-7:00pm while Kate and Gerry McCann weren’t present?
What could possibly have happened to cause an entire group to lie and cover up the truth?
Was it what happened at 6:30pm that meant they had to cover up the truth, or was it possibly which was happening during the night times which caused the whole group to agree to lie.
We will do future posts on the night time and why the nights may be important to reason why the group have covered up what ever happened at 6:30pm on the 3rd May 2007.
We are going to continue the timeline in our next post with, what the group say happened after 7:00-8:30pm on Thursday 3rd May 2007.
Please click the link below to go to Part 21 - 7:00-8:30pm - The Aftermath
https://akrasiel-theangelofjustice.blogspot.com/2019/12/part-21-700-830pm-aftermath.html?m=1
For future updates follow us on Twitter @akrasiel_angel
Please ensure you have read our previous posts as this may not make sense unless you have. This case cannot be explained in one post alone.
We are going to discuss David Payne’s visit to the McCann’s apartment at 6:30pm on Thursday 3rd May 2007.
As we have shown from our previous findings, the timeline that the group want us to believe is different to what the group have said in their statements.
We have shown how the group have followed their usual routine on the Thursday night as they have done on previous nights.
In our opinion, Gerry and Kate McCann took their children to the play area after high tea and not to the apartment, as Madeleine McCann was not tired, and they did not bathe her at 6:00pm.
Bath time between the group was usually 6:30pm, and the men of the group, apart from Gerry McCann had made their way towards the tennis courts/apartments at 6:20pm. Gerry McCann was already at the tennis courts playing men’s social tennis since 6:00pm.
The men arrived at the tennis courts, and as we have seen from the statements, there is every possibility that Kate McCann was there with her children.
Kate McCann was not there when the women of the group arrived after 6:30pm.
We are now going to go through the statements to see the reason for David Payne’s visitor according to the group.
After looking through the whole groups first statements which they provided the day after Madeleine McCann disappeared, not one member of the group discusses David Payne’s visit at 6:30pm.
The majority of the group completely miss out details regarding the men’s social tennis and start the majority of their statements regarding Thursday 3rd May at the time they go for their meal at 8:30pm (The timeline the group had wrote the night Madeleine McCann went missing and before giving their statements)
Therefore, we will go through their second statements in order to see what the group had said a week after Madeleine McCann had disappeared This will show the discrepancies that appear regarding David Payne’s visit at 6:30pm.
The first group member to discuss David Payne’s visit to Gerry and Kate McCann’s apartment was Gerry McCann in his second statement, which he gave a week after Madeleine McCann disappeared on the 10th May 2007 at 3:20pm.
Gerry McCann stated the following;
Gerry McCann stated that he saw David Payne at the tennis courts at 6:30pm and that David Payne went to visit Kate McCann and returned at 7:00pm.
As we have shown in our previous posts, there is every possibility that the group followed their usual routine on the Thursday night Therefore, we believe that Kate McCann was not in her apartment at this time, 6:30-7:00pm.
Apart from Gerry McCann, no other members of the group discussed David Payne going to the McCann’s apartment at 6:30pm in their second statements.
The next member of the group to give their statements was Kate McCann.
In Kate McCann’s arguido statement given on the 6th September 2007 at 3:00pm, she stated the following regarding David Payne’s visit at 6:30pm;
Kate McCann stated that before Gerry McCann had left for men’s social tennis at 6:00pm, they had already bathed their children, and this was completed before David Payne’s visit at 6:30pm.
As we have shown in our previous posts, it is very unlikely that Kate McCann was in her apartment between 5:30-6:30pm.
Therefore, what Kate McCann has said about what herself and Gerry McCann did between this time is possibly untrue.
Kate McCann stated that the reason for David Payne’s visit was to see if Kate McCann need help TAKING THE CHILDREN TO THE PLAY AREA.
Kate McCann had stated before saying this, that her and Gerry McCann had already decided NOT TO TAKE THE CHILDREN TO THE PLAY AREA after their “bath” as they were tired.
Would Gerry McCann ask David Payne to go to Kate McCann’s apartment, to see if she needed help with the children going to the play area, if himself and Kate McCann had already decided before Gerry McCann had left for tennis that they were not taking the children due to tiredness.
Kate McCann stated that David Payne stayed at the veranda door, and was only at the apartment for approximately 30 seconds.
Gerry McCann was the next member of the group to discuss David Payne’s visit at 6:30pm on the 3rd May 2007. In his Arguido statement given on the 7th September 2007 at 4:05pm, he stated the following;
Gerry McCann stated that David Payne appeared at the tennis courts at 6:30pm and said that he didn’t know whether he could continue playing tennis as they had intended on bringing the children to the play area after their bath time, even though Kate McCann had said in an earlier statement that Gerry McCann and Kate McCann had already decided before Gerry McCann left for tennis, that they wouldn’t be taking the children to the play area.
Gerry McCann has now stated that the reason David Payne went to visit Kate McCann was because David Payne had offered to check in on Kate McCann, but this is not as Kate McCann stated in her previous Arguido statement, as she stated that Gerry McCann had asked David Payne to visit, instead of David Payne offering to visit.
Therefore, we can already see a discrepancy between Kate McCann and Gerry McCann regarding the children going to the play area as it had already been decided the children would not be going before Gerry McCann had left to go to tennis.
We have also shown the discrepancy between Gerry McCann and Kate McCann regarding the reason for David Payne’s visit at 6:30pm.
Kate McCann stated that Gerry McCann asked David Payne to help Kate McCann.
Gerry McCann stated that David Payne offered to check on Kate McCann.
We are now going to look at David Payne’s visit according to himself from his rogatory statement.
There is a lot of information in David Payne’s rogatory interview, therefore, we will go through small parts at a time.
The first time David Payne discussed the visit to Kate McCann is as follows;
David Payne stated that he went to the tennis courts to speak to Gerry McCann and that from this, he had decided to go back and play tennis.
This is different to what the group had been saying regarding the tennis.
It was men’s social tennis on the Thursday night, which the group had requested to move to 6:00pm.
The men of the group confirmed that they left the beach at 6:20pm to go and play the men’s social tennis.
Why was David Payne going to the tennis courts first to see if Gerry McCann was going to stay playing tennis, when the group already knew it was men’s social tennis?
David Payne then stated that Gerry McCann had asked David Payne to “pop in” on Kate McCann at their apartment to check everything was okay with Kate McCann, but he cannot remember the exact reason for why he went to visit Kate McCann, he believes it was to make sure if it was okay for Gerry McCann to carry on playing tennis.
In our opinion, this was a very unlikely reason, as Kate McCann knew it was men’s social tennis, and she knew it was from 6:00pm until 7:00pm as it was most nights of the holiday.
There would be no need for David Payne to see if it was okay for Gerry McCann to stay playing, as Kate McCann already knew that Gerry McCann would be playing until at least 7:00pm.
We have also shown in previous posts how this is possibly untrue that Kate McCann was not in the apartment to begin with.
With these discrepancies between Gerry McCann, Kate McCann and David Payne, it is looking more likely that she was not in that apartment at the time she said she was.
David Payne has also stated that when he went to the tennis courts, he does not know what happened to Matthew Oldfield and Russell O’Brien at this time. Even though all the men had supposedly left the beach to play men’s social tennis. (We will return to the men playing tennis in our next post)
David Payne then continued with his rogatory interview;
David Payne stated that he went to the McCann’s apartment at 6:30pm, and that he ENTERED the apartment through the patio doors.
Kate McCann had said in her arguido statement that David Payne did not enter and stood at the veranda door.
Why would Kate McCann and David Payne have different recollections of David Payne’s visit.
Is it because Kate McCann wasn’t actually in the apartment at the time David Payne was, and therefore when giving her Arguido statement, had to make guesses about how long he was there and if he entered or not.
There is not other explanation other than either one of them has lied.
In our opinion, Kate McCann has lied about being in her apartment at the time of this visit, as we know that members of the group said she was at the tennis courts at 6:30pm, and Fiona Payne stated that her and Kate McCann returned to the McCann’s apartment at 7:00pm.
Before we move further on in David Payne’s statement, we are going to return to Kate McCann’s rogatory regarding this event of when David Payne arrived;
Kate McCann stated that when David Payne arrived, she was wrapped in a towel.
Kate McCann said that the children were eating and looking at some books.
Kate McCann also stated in her interview before above paragraph;
As we were told, Madeleine McCann was wearing her pyjama’s when she was abducted and images of these pyjama’s can be seen;
As you can see from the photo. Madeleine McCann’s pyjama’s are mainly pink with coloured flowers on the pyjama pants.
Bearing this in mind, we will now look at David Payne’s recollection of the children when he entered the apartment at 6:30pm;
David Payne first stated that the children were dressed in their pyjamas, therefore you would believe if he remembered that the children were wearing pyjama’s, he would at least remember another colour other than white.
David Payne states further on in this extract that he cannot remember what the children were wearing, but WHITE WAS THE PREDOMINANT COLOUR.
David Payne uses very suspicious language regarding the time he visited Kate McCann in our opinion, as he has stated that the children “were just like angels”, and “they all looked so happy and well looked after and content”
David Payne then stated that he left the McCann’s apartment, went to his own apartment to get his tennis gear (There is no confirmation in Any group members to say that he has played tennis at all during the holiday)
Gerry McCann had also stated that David Payne returned to the tennis courts at 7:00pm which was the time men’s social tennis ended that evening.
David Payne also stated that when he arrived at the tennis courts, Gerry McCann left and he played tennis with Russell O’Brien, Matthew Oldfield and Dan Stuk, the tennis coach.
Dan Stuk had said in his statement that he played tennis with Gerry McCann between 6:00-7:00pm, David Payne arrived at the tennis courts at 7:00pm. (We will go in to this in our next post)
To conclude our findings so far;
David Payne has gone to the McCann’s apartment at 6:30pm.
Kate McCann was not in the apartment with David Payne at 6:30pm due to their recollections of the same event not matching at all.
Kate McCann was elsewhere with Fiona Payne until 7:00pm, but she had been seen at 6:30pm at the tennis courts when the men arrived at 6:30pm.
Fiona Payne has added emphasis to her statements when discussing the children’s bath time and when David Payne bathes them, by emphasising “OUR KIDS” were taken back for their bath on a previous night.
Rachael Oldfield has also confirmed that her daughter shared baths with another couples child (Jane Tanner’s and Russell O’Briens)
Bath time was usually 6:30pm every night.
David Payne cannot not remember what the children were wearing that night when he saw them, but he states WHITE WAS THE PREDOMINANT COLOUR, but he does not state this colour as being the clothes they were wearing.
David Payne was then asked in his rogatory interview;
David Payne has now stated that there were “NO DIFFICULTIES WITH BATH TIME”
Why is David Payne saying that there were no difficulties with bath time at 6:30pm, when Gerry and Kate McCann both supposedly bathed their children closer to 6:00pm, before Gerry McCann had left for tennis, and the children had also supposedly finished their bath before David Payne visited at 6:30pm.
WHY DOES DAVID PAYNE MENTION BATH TIME?
How does he convey it to Gerry McCann without actually saying it?
Therefore in our opinion from our findings throughout this post and previous posts, we believe David Payne was possibly bathing Madeleine McCann with his daughter at 6:30pm in the McCann’s apartment without Kate McCann or Gerry McCann present.
We believe that when the men arrived at the tennis courts/apartments, they were actually returning to start bath time at 6:30pm and not to play in the men’s social tennis which was already in play from 6:00pm with Gerry McCann, Dan Stuk, Julian Totman and Brian Curtis.
Kate McCann possibly left with the other men towards the apartments, and we believe that she went on to the Payne’s apartment.
The women then came back from the beach, and possibly returned the children to the apartments for their regular bath time as it had gone past 6:30pm.
The women then went in to each others apartments while the children were bathed, therefore Kate McCann and Fiona Payne were together in a different apartment other than the McCann’s for them to return to the McCann’s for 7:00pm
Rachel Oldfield had stated that members of the group would be in other peoples apartments, before, during and after bedtime.
Further on in David Payne’s rogatory interview, he was asked to go in to more detail regarding his visit to Kate McCann at 6:30pm.
Before we go though his statement which provides more detail, we will remind you of what Kate McCann had said in her arguido statement regarding the visit, so it will be easier to see their discrepancies and why we believe they are both lying. Kate McCann lied about being in the apartment and David Payne lied about what he actually witnessed happen in the apartment.
Kate McCann’s arguido statement;
We will now provide a summary of the discrepancies we’ll compare.
Kate McCann stated that between 6:30-6:40pm David Payne came to the apartment.
Kate McCann stated that she heard someone knocking at the door.
Kate McCann stated that David Payne had opened the veranda door as it was unlocked.
Kate McCann was wrapped in a towel while talking to David Payne.
Kate McCann stated that David Payne did not enter the apartment.
Kate McCann stated that David Payne was there for 30 seconds.
Kate McCann stated that David Payne left at 6:30-6:40pm.
Now, looking at David Payne’s we will show the amount of discrepancies which in our opinion, proves Kate McCann possibly wasn’t in the apartment with David Payne.
David Payne stated that the door was already open, whereas Kate McCann said it was closed.
David Payne said he saw Kate McCann was looking very relaxed, whereas Kate McCann had said that she had to get out of the shower to answer the door.
David Payne stated that it had a conversation with Kate McCann regarding the children being ready for bed early, how he had such a good say and afternoon, how Gerry McCann had just finishing playing tennis (even though he was supposedly returning to play)
David Payne states that he looked at all three children and couldn’t help but notice that “they were just so well presented and so clean and immaculate” and “just looked like healthy children”.
In our opinion, David Payne is trying to cover up the truth by painting the perfect picture. (Similar to Gerry McCann’s proud father moment)
We have already shown so many discrepancies within such a small timescale between Kate McCann’s and David Payne’s recollection of the same event. We will now continue through David Payne’s rogatory interview.
David Payne stated that Kate McCann and the children were within the immediate area as you entered the apartment.
David Payne states that he went in to the lounge whereas Kate McCann had stated that he stayed at the door and did not enter.
David Payne stated that he had a conversation with Kate McCann which means he would have to stay longer than the thirty seconds that Kate McCann had stated.
David Payne stated that he was there for minutes.
Continuing with his interview;
David Payne stated that there was nothing untoward happening in the apartment, without being prompted by the interviewer.
David Payne stated that the children looked happy and there was no signs of any problems without being promoted by the interviewer.
David Payne said the children were still all talking and playing around without being prompted.
David Payne stated how well they all looked and again, how content they were.
The interviewer than asked David Payne directly?
David Payne stated that he definitely went inside the apartment at 6:30pm, whereas Kate McCann said he stayed at the door.
David Payne stated that he was not able to confirm what anyone was wearing while he was in the apartment. Even though he could remember in detail the conversation he had, and how relaxed, content, and happy the children and how immaculate they all looked, he could not remember one item of clothing any of them wore. He can only remember the predominant colour WHITE.
David Payne continued;
David Payne could not state that Kate McCann was in a towel.
David Payne stated that he set eyes on all three children, but was still unable to confirm one piece of clothing colour.
David Payne stated that the children were GENERALLY standing up.
David Payne stated that the children could confirm that he had been there that evening at 6:30pm.
David Payne stated that the children would remember him as he knew them very well and that he would play with Madeleine McCann in the play area, lifting her up and twizzing her around, and that she looked very happy.
Relating this back to a previous post were Matthew Oldfield talks about how himself, Russell O’Brien and David Payne would play monster chase with Madeleine McCann, and that it was all pretend until that point.
Then David Payne is discussing playing with Madeleine McCann when he is describing his time in the apartment talking to Kate McCann, when as we have shown, Kate McCann possibly wasn’t in the apartment, but as David Payne stated, the children could confirm he had been there that evening.
David Payne was then asked the following;
David Payne stated that this was the last time he saw Madeleine McCann.
David Payne stated that he was in the apartment for 3-5 minutes maximum, whereas Kate McCann said he was at the veranda door for 30 seconds.
David Payne cannot remember if he left the door open or closed it when he left.
From the statements above, it is clear that Kate McCann and David Payne were not together in the apartment at 6:30-6:40pm.
The children would be able to confirm that they saw David Payne at this time in the apartment.
Before we finish this post, we will take a look at Fiona Payne’s rogatory interview regarding David Payne’s visit;
Fiona Payne first stated that David Payne had gone to the McCann’s off his own back and then said she didn’t know the reason why had visited.
Fiona Payne stated that David Payne told her about his visit because he had told her when he returned between 7:10-7:15pm.
Fiona Payne said that the reason why he told her was because “how angelic they all looked”
Even though there is now every possibility that David Payne bathed Madeleine McCann at 6:30pm, we still do not know where Matthew Oldfield and Russell O’Brien went to at 6:30pm.
David Payne stated that he went to the tennis courts at 6:30pm, but didn’t know where Russell O’Brien and Matthew Oldfield went. Therefore, from his statement, we can assume that Russell O’Brien and Matthew Oldfield did not return to the tennis courts after the beach, and possibly went back to their apartments.
We will be looking at this in our next post regarding what happened after David Payne returned to the tennis courts at 7:00pm.
Supposedly the time everyone had left the tennis courts according to the groups first and second statements, given a day, and a week after Madeleine McCann disappeared.
We do believe that the critical time in this investigation is the time that David Payne was in the McCann’s apartment between 6:30-7:00pm.
Referencing back to our previous post with Katherina Gasper’s statement and what we have seen in this groups statements.
The likelihood that the men bathed the children during this holiday, the same as the holiday in Majorca in 2005 is now looking very likely.
We will return to David Payne and what possibly happened during this time in a future post, but we believe we need to show how the groups statements have changed regarding what happened after 7:00pm on the 3rd May 2007 in their rogatory interviews.
Please click the link below to go to Part 20 - 6:00pm Men’s Social Tennis, Did the men play? - Part 2
https://akrasiel-theangelofjustice.blogspot.com/2019/12/part-20-600pm-mens-social-tennis-did.html?m=1
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