What happened between 6:30-7:00pm on Thursday the 3rd May 2007, that have caused a group of people to lie about what they did between 7:00-8:30pm?
From our previous post, we have shown how Matthew Oldfield, Russell O’Brien and David Payne have all extended the time they returned from tennis from 7:15pm to 8:00pm.
We will now look at the partners rogatory statements to see the discrepancies to prove these lies.
Matthew Oldfield’s second statement which he gave on the 10th May 2007 at 4:00pm is the first person to discuss returning from tennis;
Matthew Oldfield stated that he stayed in his apartment from 7:00-8:45pm (we believe 7:45pm to be an error as every night they went to the meal at 8:30pm, the only reason Matthew Oldfield may have said this time by mistake is if something relevant happened at this time, but that is just a possibility)
According to Rachael Oldfield’s second statement given on the 11th May 2007 at 11:30am;
Rachael Oldfield stated that she gave her daughter a bath before Matthew Oldfield arrives at 7:15pm. As we have shown from previous posts and statements, the majority of the group returned after 7:00pm.
Rachael Oldfield said that they both got bathed and dresses and went to the Tapas at 8:40pm.
Matthew Oldfield and Rachael Oldfield’s second statements match with each others.
We are now going to look at their rogatory interviews and compare what they have said.
Matthew and Rachael Oldfield gave their rogatory interviews on the 9th April 2008. Matthew Oldfield gave his at 10:19am, whereas Rachael Oldfield gave hers at 10:23am. Therefore they would both be interviewed at the same time and cannot discuss anything until after their interviews have finished.
If they are being truthful, their recollections should match, if the group are lying, and they have discussed this timeline, then there is also a possibility they will match, but if there are too many discrepancies, the chances are, they are both lying.
Matthew Oldfield in his rogatory states the following;
Matthew Oldfield has stated in a previous post that he returned closed to 8:00pm rather than the original 7:15pm everyone had said in the earlier statements.
Matthew Oldfield stated that his daughter had been bathed when he returned whereas Rachael Oldfield stated that Matthew Oldfield returned while she was bathing her daughter.
Matthew Oldfield said he is “pretty certain” his daughter was awake when he returned.
Matthew Oldfield said that they put their daughter to bed and read her stories.
Matthew Oldfield said that they would normally bathe their daughter and put her to bed at 7:30pm, which was still possible this night as the women had supposedly took the children back at 7:00pm to be bathed, whereas now he is saying because they were running late, they didn’t manage to get their daughter down until closer to 8:00pm.
Matthew Oldfield stated that once they saw Gerry McCann and Kate McCann at the table in the Tapas bar they decided to leave their apartment.
We will now compare Matthew Oldfield’s rogatory interview with Rachael Oldfield’s rogatory interview, and remember, they gave their interviews at the same time.
Rachael Oldfield stated the following;
Rachael Oldfield stated that she didn’t arrive to the tennis courts until 7:00-7:10pm, this is much later than she had originally said, it has also gone past the time that she had originally said that they had left tennis.
Rachael Oldfield has also extended the time Gerry McCann left the tennis to 7:20pm, whereas we have confirmation from other members that he left at 7:00pm when David Payne returned from the McCann’s apartment.
Rachael Oldfield continued her interview;
Rachael Oldfield stated that they all left at the same time between 7:30-7:40pm (extended time).
Rachael Oldfield states that Jane Tanner’s and Russell O’Brien’s daughter may if had a bath in their apartment on the Thursday night, but is unsure as this may have been another night.
Rachael Oldfield has now stated that between 7:30-7:40pm all the women took the children back to their apartments, leaving the men to play tennis. (She has now extended the entire time for the group)
Rachael Oldfield states once again that Jane Tanner’s and Russell O’Briens daughter had a bath in their apartment, whereas Matthew Oldfield had stated that he returned to Rachael Oldfield and her daughter who they read a book to and put to bed. Matthew Oldfield did not say that his daughter was having a bath with anyone else’s child.
Rachael Oldfield stated that children being bathed between the apartments happened often.
Rachael Oldfield stated that she was reading books when Matthew Oldfield arrived.
Rachael Oldfield continued;
Rachael Oldfield stated that she believes she was reading books with her daughter and Jane Tanner’s daughter on the Thursday night.
Rachael Oldfield has now stated that her daughter was put to bed at 8:00pm, even though they have got back from the tennis later, she has still managed to give possibly two children a bath, got them dries and dressed and had time to read stories to them, but still they were running late.
Rachael Oldfield said the reason why there were running late was “because, you know, everything was happening, it happened a bit later that evening.”
WHAT WAS HAPPENING THAT CAUSED THEM TO BE LATER THAN USUAL?
Tennis had been moved forward as it was most nights.
The men and women were all back at the apartments by 7:15pm in their original statements, which was no different to any other night.
They still managed to bathe their children when they returned.
BUT SOMETHING WAS HAPPING WHICH CAUSES THEM TO BE LATE.
The last part Rachael Oldfield discussed in her interview was when they left to go the Tapas;
Rachael Oldfield stated the same as Matthew Oldfield, that when they saw Gerry McCann and Kate McCann arriving at the restaurant, they knew they better get going.
From comparing Matthew and Rachael Oldfield’s statements, which as partners you would be believe would be similar, especially regarding parts when they’re together (time they left the apartment) we have shown that there are too many discrepancies for them to be true.
In our opinion, both of them are lying to cover their true actions during this time.
We will now look at Jane Tanner and Russell O’Brien’s statements to see what discrepancies show between each of theirs, and others regarding the time 7:00-8:30pm.
Jane Tanner stated the following in her 2nd statement given on the 10th May 2007 at 4:35pm;
Jane Tanner originally stated that she returned to her apartment at 7:00pm and bathed her daughters and read them a story.
Jane Tanner has not mentioned her daughter bathing with Rachael Oldfield’s daughter.
Jane Tanner stated that her daughter wasn’t feeling well.
Jane Tanner states that Russell O’Brien arrived in the meantime and it was his turn to stay with their daughter because she was struggling to sleep.
Jane Tanner left for the Tapas at 8:30pm.
We will compare her second statement with Russell O’Brien’s second statement which he gave on the 11th May 2007 at 11:20am;
Russell O’Brien stated that he returned at 7:15-7:30pm.
Russell O’Brien stated that he read his daughters some stories.
Russell O’Brien’s states that his daughter was a little better butbhad trouble sleeping which agreed with Jane Tanner’s.
Russell O’Brien stated that Jane Tanner left the apartment at 20:35-20:40pm.
As we have shown in previous posts, Jane Tanner and Russell O’Brien tend to lie and create alibi’s a lot more than other members of the group.
We will now compare their rogatory interviews with each other, as well as against their earlier statements, and other group members statements.
Jane Tanner was the first one out of the two to give her rogatory interview, she gave hers on the 8th April 2008 at 10:00am.
Jane Tanner stated;
Jane Tanner has now stated that it was about 7:30pm that they returned to their apartment, whereas in her earlier statement she had stated that they returned at 7:00pm. (Extended time)
Jane Tanner stated “no, no, no, just, erm, yeah, it was the same, we’d done that almost every night” when asked the direct question of “Nothing different to the rest of the holiday really?”
What made her change her answer from no to yes?
What was different this night to other nights which is causing the whole group to extend the time tennis ended?
Jane Tanner then stated that her daughter’s had had a “screaming fit” on the Thursday night. Whereas, in previous statements, both herself and Russell O’Brien both said that their daughter’s were bathed and had stories read to them, and Rachael Oldfield had said that Jane Tanner’s daughter had been bathed in her apartment with her own daughter, but this has not been stated by either Jane Tanner or Russell O’Brien.
Jane Tanner stated that her children were being bad that night and they “had just lost it”. Which once again, is different to how she described this night in her precious statements.
Jane Tanner stated that her daughter was asking where Russell O’Brien was when she was being put to bed, whereas Russell O’Brien had said that he had read his daughter some stories.
Jane Tanner then stated that Russell O’Brien returned at 7:45pm and they put their daughters to bed, whereas in the sentence before, she had said he daughter was asking where her dad was when Jane Tanner was putting them to bed.
Jane Tanner has contradicted herself regarding when her children where put to bed and when Russell O’Brien returned to the apartment.
As you can see, there are so many discrepancies between all the statements so far.
We are now going to look at Russell O’Brien’s rogatory interview which he gave on the 10th April 2007 at 8:55am;
Russell O’Brien stated that he returned to the apartment at 8:00pm, Jane Tanner had said 7:45pm. (Both extended time)
Russell O’Brien stated that the children were in bed.
Russell O’Brien states that Jane Tanner went to the Tapas at 20:30-20:40pm and he stayed in the flat to settle down his daughter.
Due to Russell O’Brien taking a written rogatory statement with him, this meant the interviewer had to go through the statement he had typed out instead of interviewing.
This allowed Russell O’Brien to amend any details he wanted to before he signed it as his statement.
Once he had done this, the interviewer would then ask him more questions but in further detail.
The next part of his statement we will look at, is the part where he is allowed to amend;
Russell O’Brien stated that he wanted to change where he had wrote “the children were awake” to “the children were only just in bed”.
Russell O’Brien has decided to amend extremely minor details which would be no use in helping find Madeleine McCann or even help the investigation. It is only helping him to ensure he has gotten his story straight.
Russell O’Brien also requested to change the time change went to the restaurant from 8:30-8:40pm to exactly 8:40pm.
Russell O’Brien was being extremely picky during this interview in the amendments he wanted to make.
We are now going to look at Russell O’Brien’s interview where he was asked direct questions;
Russell O’Brien states that Gerry McCann left a little earlier than the rest if the men, and they followed not long after. As we have shown, Gerry McCann finished tennis at 7:00pm, therefore for the men to leave not longer after Gerry McCann, it would have been closer to 7:00pm ad they had originally said, whereas Russell O’Brien states he got back close to 8:00pm.
Russell O’Brien has contradicted himself.
Russel O’Brien states once again that rackets had to be taken back with them.
As we know from previous statements, the group left when David Payne arrived, which should have give them plenty of time to take their rackets back, but for some reason they had to leave the tennis courts with their rackets at 7:00pm and go back to the apartments without stopping to drop them off.
What would cause them to have to rush off at 7:00pm to cause them to take the resorts equipment with them which should have been returned that night.
Russell O’Brien stated that Jane Tanner had been in the apartment with the children for a while before he returned after tennis, but even still, Jane Tanner had not managed to get the children to bed, whereas in their earlier statements, both had said they returned, bathed the children, read them stories and put them to bed.
All the members of the group extend the time the finished tennis in their rogatory statements so far.
We will not look at Fiona Payne’s, Dianne Webster’s and David Payne’s.
Before we do, remember that Fiona Payne said she was with Kate McCann at 7:00pm.
In our opinion neither Fiona Payne or Kate McCann stayed at the tennis courts, and you will see this when Fiona Payne talks about the men’s social tennis.
Dianne Webster has also lied regarding remembering Matthew Oldfield walking past them at 9:00pm on the Thursday night, she’s lied about remembering Russell O’Brien leaving the table at 9:40pm, and she lied about the men playing tennis most afternoons. Therefore her statements are very untrustworthy.
David Payne has lied regarding being with Kate McCann in the apartment, and we will see further lies as we continue through their statements.
Fiona Payne was the first person to discuss the time after tennis in her first statement given on the 4th May 2007 at 7:20pm;
Fiona Payne stated that she left with Dianne Webster at 7:00pm, which we have shown is most likely untrue.
Fiona Payne states that her husband arrived ten minutes later.
Fiona Payne stated that David Payne bathed their children with Dianne Webster.
Fiona Payne stated she went jogging from 7:15-8:00pm.
Dianne Webster was the next group member who gave her first statement on the 4th May 2007 at 8:45pm;
Dianne Webster stated that she returned to the apartment with the children and ten minutes later David Payne joined her and the children, and together, they bathed the children.
Dianne Webster does not state where Fiona Payne is at this time.
Due to the fact that their are no second statements in the PJfiles from David and Fiona Payne, we’ve only got Dianne Websters to look through, as well as the extract contained in the Gasper statement where Fiona Payne stated she was with Kate McCann at 7:00pm.
Dianne Webster said in her second statement given on the 11th May 2007 at 11:30am;
Dianne Webster has now stated that Fiona Payne was with her and David Payne at 7:00pm and they all left together to go to apartments after tennis with their children.
As we have shown in previous posts, Fiona Payne was most likely with Kate McCann at 7:00pm.
We will now move on to the rogatory’s which previous group members have all extended their time after tennis.
To confirm our belief why Fiona Payne was not at the tennis courts and more likely in her apartment with Kate McCann, is due to what she has states in her rogatory statement on the 10th April 2008 at 8:55am;
There is also another part in Fiona Payne’s rogatory interview which we believe confirms that she was not at men’s social tennis on the Thursday night;
Fiona Payne also cannot state anything about the time the other women left that night, and then includes, “what tike they left to sort the kids out”.
Fiona Payne stated that they did not leave all together, whereas in other members statements they say they all left at 7:00pm.
This confirms our conclusion that Fiona Payne was not at the tennis courts on the Thursday night.
We will continue looking at Fiona Payne’s statement;
Fiona Payne stated that the next time she saw David Payne after he had left for tennis, was when she arrived at the tennis courts and watched him play for the whole half an hour that she supposedly was there for.
In our opinion, Fiona Payne has tried to create an alibi for David Payne, by saying that he played for the whole half hour.
Fiona Payne also stated that David Payne did tell her about his visit to the McCann’s apartment and that he saw Kate McCann and the children, but she said that was between 6:00-6:30pm, once again, creating his alibi.
Fiona Payne struggled when she was asked direct question about David Payne playing tennis, and confirmed once again, that she was not at the tennis court on the Thursday night.
Fiona Payne has confirmed that she cannot say for certain that David Payne did what he said he did between 6:00-7:00pm and cannot confirm that he played tennis at all.
Fiona Payne then continued to discuss after 7:00pm on the Thursday night;
Fiona Payne then went for a jog between 7:15-8:00pm, this was at the same time as Dianne Webster and David Payne supposedly bathed the children.
As we said at the beginning, you need to forget the timeline they are telling you as they are covering the truth with a lot of tiny lies.
In our opinion from our findings, the McCann’s moved their bath time to 6:00pm on the Thursday night, so it was away from their usual 6:30pm (the time something happened to Madeleine McCann)
The other group members all moved their bath time to after 7:00pm, to distance it once again from 6:30pm.
They also used the men’s social tennis as a cover up for what the men were doing between 6:30-8:00pm.
Dianne Webster has been used throughout her statements to create alibi’s for the group.
Dianne Webster helped David Payne with his, by saying he returned at 7:10pm and bathed the children with her.
Whereas Fiona Payne lied about jogging from 7:15-8:00pm, as this was the time she was in the McCann’s apartment after what ever happened to Madeleine McCann. (Extended time)
All this relates back to when Matthew Oldfield states that when he arrived at the apartments at 7:15pm after tennis, he found other members of the group in the apartments.
This would be the time the majority of the group would become aware something happened to Madeleine McCann, and we know something happened to her at this time due to the amount of lies and discrepancies during this time.
We also know something happened to Madeleine McCann at this time, as Rachael Oldfield said they were late to dinner due to everything happening on the Thursday night.
We will now look at David Payne’s rogatory interview to see if he confirms the same as Fiona Payne, or does he extend the time as everyone else has.
David Payne gave his rogatory interview on the 11th April 2008 at 10:26am;
David Payne stated that he didn’t go back to the apartment until after 7:30pm (extended time)
This now confirms that Dianne Webster and Fiona Payne created a false alibi for David Payne in regards to him returning to the apartment.
Fiona Payne could not confirm what David Payne did during men’s social tennis.
David Payne stated that Fiona Payne went for her run when he had gotten back after 7:30pm, and then he bathed the children.
Once again, another member of the group who have extended the time tennis ended, and now said that they were running later than usual, whereas in their first statements, everything was supposedly running on time.
David Payne was also asked a direct question by the interviewer;
David Payne stated that they got the prams and children and head back towards the tennis courts.
David Payne stated that the tennis started at 6:30pm whereas the rest of the group have confirmed that it was moved earlier to 6:00pm as requested by group members.
David Payne then said it was 6:45pm when he played tennis.
Now, in our opinion, David Payne blatantly lies regarding playing tennis;
David Payne states that he himself, Gerry McCann, Russell O’Brien and Matthew Oldfield were going to make up the four players.
David Payne does not state that any other holiday makers were playing tennis at the same time.
David Payne then stated that Dan Stuk, the instructor made up the four, but as we know, the other men of the group didn’t play tennis.
David Payne could not explain how or when the player change took place in the tennis game.
David Payne stated that Gerry McCann had asked him to “pop in” to see Kate McCann, who we have shown was most likely not in her apartment at the same time as David Payne, and Gerry McCann had said that David Payne had offered to go to the McCann’s apartment.
Gerry McCann also David Payne was away from the tennis courts from 6:30-7:00pm. Therefore, David Payne was not playing tennis with him or anyone else at this time.
David Payne also confirms the logic of his lie by explaining what he WOULD have done;
David Payne stated that logically he should have gone to his apartment first and then to the McCann’s through their front door, but instead he went to the McCann’s at 6:30pm, and no-one can confirm what happened between this time while David Payne was in the McCann’s apartment, not even Kate McCann, as it has been proven that she most likely wasn’t in the apartment at this time.
When David Payne was asked a direct question about how long he had spent inside the McCann’s apartment, he failed to give a direct answer;
Rather than David Payne just telling the interviewer how long he spent inside the apartment, he decided to explain his movements from the tennis courts to his apartment and to the McCann’s and each one took about 5-10 minutes.
The tennis courts were right next door to the Tapas bar, and the group would walk the same route from the tennis courts as they would do from the Tapas bar.
At night, the group said that it would only take a minute to get to the apartments and another minute to get back, whereas now David Payne is saying the same walk is taking him 5-10 minutes.
Once again, David Payne is extending his time to cover the truth.
David Payne knows that it shouldn’t have taken him so long to do what he supposedly did, and therefore struggles to explain this when asked to go in to more detail.
David Payne then continues his interview and once again, extends the time that the men finish playing tennis (which we have shown that they didn’t play);
David Payne has now stated that he returned to the apartment closer to 8:00pm.
Therefore, this now proves that Fiona Payne and Dianne Webster have both lied to provide David Payne with a false alibi of being in his apartment at 7:15pm.
David Payne even stated that Fiona Payne still wanted to go for a run that evening, even though he has got back closer to 8:00pm, and Fiona Payne had stated that she had gone for a jog between 7:15-8:00pm.
David Payne did not state anything else in his statement regarding this time, as once the group say they returned to the apartments, they all state that they got ready for the meal, whereas in our opinion, they spent this time between 7:00-8:30pm creating a plan for the evening.
We do not believe the timeline was pre-planned for the night, the timeline’s had to be written quickly, because something in their plan went wrong. This would relate back to Jane Tanners lie, and Tannerman.
The last person to give their rogatory interview was Dianne Webster.
Dianne Webster gave her interview on the 11th April 2008 at 10:26am, which was the exact time David Payne was giving his.
Dianne Webster stated the following regarding the men’s social tennis;
Dianne Webster confirms that the men left the beach for men’s social tennis at 6:20pm, but later on she struggles to remember anything during the time of men’s social tennis between 6:30-7:00pm.
Due to Dianne Webster struggling to remember the details, the interviewer offered to read her, her second statement to refresh her memory;
Therefore, our opinion in regards to our findings, is that after 7:00pm the group have found out what has happened to Madeleine McCann.
We do not believe that all the group new at the same time that night, but eventually the whole group had to know to be able to provide alibi’s for each other.
We understand that so far we have only explained the groups alibi during the meal, and the routine during the week leading up to Thursday 3rd May 2007 at 6:30pm, and that something happened to Madeleine between 6:30-7:00pm.
Also that the group have covered up the truth by extending the times that the men finished playing social tennis, which they did not play, and the possibility that this holiday was planned the same way as the holiday to Majorca in 2005, with the same reasons as Katherina Gasper had stated.
That the men bathed the children during that holiday.
In our future posts, we will explain the possible reason for the cover up, as we don’t believe that it just involved what ever happened at 6:30pm, we will also do future posts on other topics, for example, the baby listening agreement, the crying incidents etc.
Please make sure you are following us on twitter and our blog for regular updates.
Please click the link below to go to Part 22 - “Baby Listening”, “Checks” and the Patio Doors.
Matthew Oldfield stated that once they saw Gerry McCann and Kate McCann at the table in the Tapas bar they decided to leave their apartment.....how could he/they see that far ? And how dark was it anyway ?
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